The date of their Return?

[MANKIEWICZ]

4/1/08

No this is not an April fool joke.

Sometimes firsthand info may be 'correct' and other times 'corrected'
info may be propaganda or actually an educated correction. Hard to believe anything you hear -right?

Case in point the Mayan date for closeure of this cycle. I first heard
about it in a Rod Serling documentary released in the '70's called
"The Outer Space Connection".

It stated a date of December 24, 2011. It also stated that this date
of the 'gods' was etched into stone on the arched Gate of the Sun.

This, said Serling was the date of the "gods" return. Nothing was mentioned about Planet X, or any of the associated items thrown in
the new date of December 21, 2012.

So, is the new date correct or the old one? Also, could this planet X
-if it exists, possibly be the vehicle for their return?


"It ain't what a man don't know that makes him a fool, but what he
does know that ain't so." -Josh Billings

[amnesiac]

interesting,

yeah, theres too much confusing information about the 2012 date.

When finished reading of Astralwalkers articles I had depression for next few hours

But then I was wondering, If it`s all true with the end of the world in four years, why those "chosen ones " and those who rule the world now completing steps to take control over the world economy, trying to create new american currency, fighting in middleeast and spending billions of dollars, or building space technology and other stuff?? It just doesn`t look like there should be end of this civilization.
And of course I heard about underground construction progress. But it just doesnt make sense to me at this point.

And also what is weird, If they will go underground and the rest of the mankind is going to die, who is gonna work for them? who is going to bake a bread? maintain everyday life? Even If it`s underground. Someone has to work on everyday bases, maintenance, services etc. I dont think they will do these jobs themselves......

The whole thing just doesnt make sense to me....

[urogard]

you know that's precicely what i've been thinking about amnesiac, however I think what those people are doing is what at least I would do if i were in their position (position of power and a horribly screwed up conscience), I think they are very well aware of what can happen that the end is coming in 4 years.

However I think they are being either slightly sceptical about it, so that they keep pursuing their plans should nothing actually happen, or even if it happens they will just say "well we tried, too bad it got screwed up but at least we can control those that go with us into the tunnels"

I certainly doubt they would go doing anything that they know for sure would be an effort in vain.

[MANKIEWICZ]

Hello Amnesiac from the East Coast!

Along with my question of the 2011 or 2012 date; all these doomsday
scenarios if controlled by the elite do not make sense to me either.

Why screw up functioning societies?? One may look around now and
say things aren't what they used to be but hasn't that been the case
for every passing generation too?

I'll bet your grandparents have said that too.

Your right on with- who will bake the bread? Who will make machines?
These guys need us!
It all doesn't make sense to ruin the infrastructures.

Besides, this 2012, 2011 scenario is only based on carvings on a rock
that indicate an end to a calendar made thousands of years ago.

All I've heard so far that might be credible is that the sun is going into
a new cycle of activity then. That happens every 11 years anyway.

No one has even issued concrete criticizm of the date yet.

So don't worry.


"It ain't what a man don't know that makes him a fool, but what he
does know that ain't so." -Josh Billings

"Where all think alike, nobody thinks very much" -Walter Lipman

[urogard]

it's not just about the cycle of the sun. there's more to it (if it's true) but either way I think they are building those tunnels BECAUSE they have no chance of stopping it.

[MANKIEWICZ]

4/5/08

Yes Uroguard! Greetings from the wet East Coast!

Also yes is that this is 2012 "Speculation Board." Meaning I think,
anything goes.

This is a real conundrum. You know, I usually like to discuss things
that I have first hand info about. I am used to engineering info where
I could publish fact based on data.

But this? I am basing my comments on somebody's own reporting
or speculation. That's why I ask 'The date of their return?'

EVD's "Charriots of the Gods" was an exception because it really makes
sense! Plus there were many confirmations by others and the naysayers
of this looked like obvious fools. And, if you want to; you can visit the
sights too.

Cargo cult is believable because you can see it if you want to go there
plus it also makes sense.

BUT:

-Is the date of 2011 a catostophic date for us? Do we have first hand
info or someone else's speculation.

-Is it the date of the return of the 'gods.?

-What concrete proof does anyone have (other than someone else's
speculations) for this. Is anybody here -hello? a first hand expert?

A translator perhaps.

-Is the date 12/24/11 or 12/21/12??? -I have seen this first date
given as 12/24/11 30 some years ago and gradually change as
12/21/12. Is this a 'bandwagon' effect as a result of everyone
copying everybody else?? Is one date a mistake? I have the book
and the movie 'Outer Space Connection' in my posession that gives the
2011 date. -missprint?

- Even I have posted ufo sightings only seen by the masses all at the
same time to insure some credibility-but I wasn't even there
to witness it myself! I'm basing it on world wide press like LA Times
or Washington Post and other world publications. Plus in DC there
were people from around the world who may have seen this event too.
It happened twice in DC in 1952.

-So something this grand as 2011, does anyone have first hand info
that can be shared by this forum??

- Did the first investigators looking at the 'Gate of the Sun' make a
mistake on the first translation??

I am not saying these things to be critical or mean. No way!

But some fantastic things have been said and if we are to be taken seriously we need some serious credentials other than naming other websites as proofs. Websites are not proofs by themselves but who do
you trust who wrote them? What are their credentials. Are they speculators too just like us on this one subject?

Another thing, we need to be as accurate as we can when mentioning
technical dates of history like past launches of satelites and etc.

We are all in this together and support one another.

Great claims require great proof!

Very kind regards!

"Where all think alike, nobody thinks very much" -Walter Lipman

"It ain't what a man don't know that makes him a fool, but what he
does know that ain't so." --Josh Billings

[amnesiac]

yeah, very well done, you are right, I think it is a chaos in our minds :roll:

recently, I asked about 2012 one of my friends in Europe. He is astronomer, worked for observatory, wrote some articles but he is not big scientist :lol:
He doesnt know about anything unusual in 2012. Not about any incoming planet or space body. He actually notified me about this:

1) magnetic poles of Earth did switch in history, nothing out of normal
2) theres thousands of small objects near Earth called NEOs and people had tracked about 10% of these. Sometimes they fall into the atmosphere and until today we were just lucky they were small, but bigger accident WILL happen one day. Nothing out of normal
3) it is not impossible that some "planet " may come from space and cross our way but ( like he has evidence ) theres no such "traveler" near by.
4) also Earth crossed a tail of comet in history. It made some damage in our atmosphere ( ionizied particles or something :shock: ) As he said there were strange lights in the skies ( like a northern lights ). But no one died or got sick. So not everyday event but nothing unusual. Earth collide with other space junk all the time.
5) like astronomer, he doesnt know about any big planetary alignment in 2012, so he is very bad astronomer or astrology knows some secrets :lol:
6) and finally, people are building underground tunnels since forever. Major construction started after WWII and had its peak in cold war like result of fear of nuclear conflict. So those called "elite" dig tunnels for years and for many different purposes. And one of them is of course fear of Earths collision with another space object which may occur anytime. No matter if theres any 2012 date. They just want to be ready....

Well, just a little opinion from other side if you dont mind 8)

I dont say that I agree or not with him, but if we wanna be better than blind scientific community which doesn want even read other theories ( ours ), we have to do that. We have to be open minded and dont say " we only know the truth, we are the best " . Because if we dont we will become them ....

Good luck :idea:

[MANKIEWICZ]

4-8-08

Hey Amnesiac-how goes it?

Thanks for the 'opinion from the other side'--cool!

No agreement on anything happening on 2012 by your astronomer friend.
Even 2012 itself being insignificant to him!

But people keep writing on this 2012 subject.

I just raised a very large opening on which date is correct for the
end of this cycle. 2011 or 2012 --and why.

Again, 30 some years ago a film and a book by name of "Outer Space Connection." I believe disclosed the date for the first time. Their
date came from a reading on the "Gate of the Sun" which told a date
of December 24th, 2011, for the end of the Mayan calendar and a possible return of the "gods" on that date. Nothing else!

That was 34 years ago. Life goes on and all of a sudden its 2006,7,&8
and now everyone is talking about December 21st, 2012!

Now its 2008 and I hear nothing about 12/24/11 and everything
about 12/21/12. Thats ok, I'm not hung up on dates but what was
the circumstance that started the new date of 2012?

Do any of our members know anything about the date change?

On Planet X:

Has anyone here in this forum actually seen plantet X through a
telescope yet? If so please come forward and be welcomed!

Has anyone seen photos of it that do not look like lens flares??
I have seen those and discount them.

Amnesiac, I too get upset when I hear a lengthy discourse about death
rays from another galaxy and all this followed by more unbelievable things plus a certain "this is the truth" at the end. So all these unbelievable things are the truth?? Are the sources also professing truth?

I'm not saying anyone's sources are questionable. But I have seen a few
dates wrong here and there on important points that could stain the whole story, and I think I added a kind word of correction for one of them. But heck I make them too but I can catch most of them before I submit the post.-with any luck!

Once again-best regards to all!!

"Where all think alike, nobody thinks very much." --Walter Lippman

[amnesiac]

hi to north carolina

I agree with you. How could anyone say something is true without having first hand experience or source of information, I mean first hand - not that " my friends friend had girlfriend and her father said...."
That is why I didnt say my friend is right or wrong, I just brought independent opinion of person who is probably on the other side of issue to discuss it.

Well, these "information journeys" are probably the biggest problem of all cases - not just 2012, because the original source mostly doesnt exist anymore or died long time ago or is simply unknowm ( best example is Bible itself and we can just imagine what was written in very first version of this document before people start editing it for their own profit ). And everyone who forward the message to the next generations add or delete parts of it. Sometimes the data are clear and known but unfortunately deleted by purpose. Again, history repeat itself.

So I think we both made this clear here. I personally would like to hear from astralwalker. I did read all of his stuff and it is very interesting, maybe too much to be all truth.
Anyone any ideas???

[MANKIEWICZ]

Hello amnesiac,

Good reply. especially about the bible. Who knows what was
thrown out? Wait and see I guess.

[Csabi_B]

Do any of our members know anything about the date change?

I know nothing though I guess that they cosmeticised the date so it should concur with the 11-year Saturn-Jupiter alignment after the discovery of that this alignment causes solar disturbance and flares. What else could destroy our planet if not intense solar flares? And the aspect of theirs is that our world must soon be destroyed one way or another. Something has to do the job until the next world's end theory. Now the current theory on duty is the 2012 which is based on an ancient calendar and quite obscure historical data. I suspect that the experts do not understand how the Long Count was used long ago, and if you take a closer look at how historians produce their conclusions and how these conclusions are published as facts, you can also make a conclusion that it is 1:1000000000 that the Mayans might be aware what happens in our times. 1:1000000000 still means possible, take it or leave it, and it seems people take it nicely.

[obiwan]

The so-called Gate of the Sun is a megalithic solid stone arch or gateway constructed by the ancient Tiwanaku culture of Bolivia over 1500 years before the present.

It is located near Lake Titicaca at about 3,825 m above sea level near La Paz, Bolivia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gate_of_the_Sun

the gate of the sun is not mayan unless there is a similar one in maya country?


Although there have been various modern interpretations of the mysterious inscriptions found on the object, the engravings that decorate the gate are believed to possess astronomical and/or astrological significance and may have served a calendrical purpose

[Fetapro]

I have read much of the info in this section and a question come to mind.
The Late Post Classic Mayas were defeated by the Spanish about 1550. There have been small uprisings in later years, but for all intents the Maya Empire ended in 1550. Given this isn't it correct to say that he Maya were wrong about the date of the end of their civilization? They missed it by about 650 years. If they could not correctly foresee the end of their civilization then how can the date 12-21-2012 be listed as the end of their civilization? We may need to question the validity of the Mayan calender and its ability to correctly predict the "end of days".
To put the question in a nutshell. "Were the Mayas wrong?"
Think about it.

[obiwan]

The World Age cosmology of the Maya calendar end-date in A.D.2012 and its basis in a rare astronomical alignment of the solstice sun with the Milky Way Galaxy
By John Major Jenkins

http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/JenkinsJM2-p1.htm



"The sacred Aztec calendar is properly called the Eagle Bowl. It represents the solar deity Tonatiuh. The amazingly accurate calendar has been in use in various forms for more than 2,000 years. A Zapotec prophecy, based on the Eagle Bowl, states:

"After Thirteen Heavens of Decreasing Choice, and Nine Hells of Increasing Doom, the Tree of Life shall blossom with a fruit never before known in the creation, and that fruit shall be the New Spirit of Men."

The 13 Heavens and 9 Hells were each 52 years long (1,144 years total). Each of the 9 Hells were to be worse than the last. On the final day of the last Hell (August 17, 1987), Tezcatlipoca, god of death, would remove his mask of jade to reveal himself as Quetzelcoatl, god of peace.

In the mythology of the Aztec, the first age of mankind ended with the animals devouring humans. The second age was finished by wind, the third by fire, and the fourth by water. The present fifth epoch is called Nahui-Olin (Sun of Earthquake), which began in 3113 BC and will end on December 24, 2011. It will be the last destruction of human existence on Earth. The date coincides closely with that determined by the brothers McKenna in The Invisible Landscape as “the end of history” indicated by their computer analysis of the ancient Chinese oracle-calendar, the I Ching.

The Mayan calendar is divided into Seven Ages of Man. The fourth epoch ended in August 1987. The Mayan calendar comes to an end on Sunday, December 23, 2012. Only a few people will survive the catastrophe that ensues. In the fifth age, humanity will realize its spiritual destiny. In the sixth age, we will realize God within ourselves, and in the seventh age we will become so spiritual that we will be telepathic"
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/profe ... ia01h1.htm



http://www.flickr.com/photos/glennharper/3097119092
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_td-Fy_8qGMw/S ... lendar.jpg
http://www.2012unveiled.com/images/maya ... ar%202.jpg

we are in their fifth cosmogenic epoch, at the center of the stone calendar are the previous four cosmogenic epochs, the fourth destroyed by flood/water

[capricornamy]

Well, for one thing we will find out soon enough ... 2010 is coming to a close in a little over a week, and within 2 years we will all have an answer if the Mayans were right or wrong. Will I celibrate my birthday on Jan 01, 2013, or not?

Will Humans survive ... yes

Will the World be destroyed, I do not think so ... brused and shaken up maybe.

Will the Annunaki return ... maybe, but from which direction ... from Nibiru, which is passing through our system, or from the outermost planet of our Sun's Bionary Twin Nemesis(Which is just outside our system), which is also swinging through our system?

And you wonder why all of the Scientists are warning of massive CME's to happen late 2011 to 2013. There will be quite a show of Gravitational and Magnetic forces going on between these three ... some of which has already started ... our Sun blasted a huge chunk into space a few days ago ... the Earth does not want to be anywhere near that stuff as it goes by.