No one can see my face and live

[phoenix]

I do like to try to crack ancient myths from ancient texts and to re-tell them in a language that modern people can relate to. One of these myths are the strange myth that anyone that saw the face of God would die. I've been thinking about this odd myth for a long time and i finally think i have the answer.

Anyone who saw the face of God himself would die, ancient texts claim. Could this really be true? No of course not. Even though the colonist leaders had a rule never to show themselves to human beings , no one would of course die if they saw them face to face. There were only a few humans that actually saw these alien leaders. Moses was one of them.

The myth that “no one can see Gods face and live” are however not only completely wrong, it is misinterpreted as well.
Rabbies claims that the real meaning of this statement is “No one can see the face of my Shekinah and live”. Well, that gives the myth a totally different meaning, which are more true, but not quite.

Before I explain the real meaning, lets recapture what the meaning of the Shekinah is.The Shekinah was the name the jews called the colonist’s spaceship. This spaceship was probably the colonist’s mothership and it was orbiting the earth during the entire colonization program. It was however stationed permanently on earth for a greater period of time in the very early stages of the colonization program and used as a base and science station for the colonists while they colonized earth. It took off from earth right before the great flood. According to the jews it later (after the flood) descended to earth and stayed there for short periods on seven or eight other occasions. In my book I have described this spaceship in greater details. Also read the books of Enoch to get a complete description of this spaceship.

But let us now return to the myth, for surely no one would die if they saw and observed this spaceship either. So what is the real true meaning behind this myth?

When Moses was allowed to enter this spaceship after it had landed in Sinai, he demanded to see and understand everything inside it. He therefore asked sabaoth (God of Israel) a final request before he left earth. Moses wanted to observe the spaceship when it took off from earth (Moses: Show me thy Glory). Sabaoth tells him it was dangerous and that Moses had to stay hidden in a “cave” from a distance to observe the launching, because the ignitions of the rockets would create such heat and strong and intense light that he had to stay hidden in a special observatory room to watch it. Even though Moses stayed in this observatory room and watched the launching of this spaceship, he nevertheless was slightly burned in his face. Perhaps Moses didn’t quite follow the safety protocols after all.

This is probably the true meaning by this strange myth. I will quote from The legends of the jews once again, since it is this work that gives the best description from the happening that created this myth. Read it and judge by yourself.

Although God had now granted all of his wishes, still Moses received the following answer to his prayer, "I beseech Thee, show me Thy glory": "Thou mayest not behold My glory, or else thou wouldst perish, but in consideration of My vow to grant thee all thy wishes, and in view of the fact that thou are in possession of the secret of My name, I will meet thee so far as to satisfy thy desire in part. Lift the opening of the cave, and I will bid all the angels that serve Me pass in review before thee; but as soon as thou hearest the Name, which I have revealed to thee, know then that I am there, and bear thyself bravely and without fear.'
The cave in which Moses concealed himself while God passed in review before him with His celestial retinue, was the same in which Elijah lodged when God revealed Himself to him on Horeb. If there had been in it an opening even as tiny as a needle's point, both Moses and Elijah would have been consumed by the passing Divine light, which was of an intensity so great that Moses, although quite shut off in the cave, nevertheless caught the reflection of it, so that from its radiance his face began to shine. Then God appeared in the cloud.

Whats youre opinion on this ?

Regards
Phoenix

[AnuAtlantian]

Greetings phoenix
It is the story from Exodus when Moses went back to mount sinai, the mountain of god in the sinai, after he had broken the first tablets in fury of seeing the isrealites worshiping a golden calf. ( God meets Moses and comes down in his celestial chariot.. his celestial ship)
Upon the mountain after the tablets were again writen with the finger of god, Moses asked his god let me see your glory. God tells Moses no one may see my face and live, I will pass you and put up my hand, and after you will only see my back.
From this I got that no one can see what he looks like and form a graven image of god. A very special man, the original divine man, the original Elohim who we are in their image.
Peace be with you phoenix

[Moon]

Jim Marrs hypothesized that the beings who called themselves God back in the Old Testament were Reptilian type creatures. Their appearance would of terrified anyone back then, sometimes causing them to die of shock. (This is in his book Rule By Secrecy.)

The idea of not looking directly at God or other objects is intriguing, and many do think they could of been technology that could of killed if not handled correctly. Imagine if someone had gone back in time and brought a nuclear powered device with them. The best way to keep the natives out of harm's way is to tell them it had mysterious killing powers. And in a sense, they would be totally telling the truth.

[seeker1117]

"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!"

"I am OZ THE GREAT AND POWERFUL!"

[angeloneastralseed]

This is a good translation:

[cRush]

The idea of not looking directly at God or other objects is intriguing, and many do think they could of been technology that could of killed if not handled correctly. Imagine if someone had gone back in time and brought a nuclear powered device with them. The best way to keep the natives out of harm's way is to tell them it had mysterious killing powers. And in a sense, they would be totally telling the truth.

Radiation sickness doesn't kill individuals immediately unless it is at EXTREMELY high dosages. Like standing directly in the reactor. I doubt that residual radiation would strike men dead where they stood. I also don't buy into the "they died of shock". I can't imagine encountering any object and being so frightened by it's mere appearance that I died of shock. That seems a bit over the top - maybe if I awoke to them experimenting on my eyeballs (Fire in the Sky anyone?)

Perhaps it was more of an effort by the aliens to keep their worshipers from realizing that they were simply flesh and blood creatures as well. Perhaps they simply killed anyone who gazed upon them because that could potentially undermine their authority.

[Moon]

Radiation sickness doesn't kill individuals immediately unless it is at EXTREMELY high dosages. Like standing directly in the reactor. I doubt that residual radiation would strike men dead where they stood. I also don't buy into the "they died of shock". I can't imagine encountering any object and being so frightened by it's mere appearance that I died of shock. That seems a bit over the top - maybe if I awoke to them experimenting on my eyeballs (Fire in the Sky anyone?)

Perhaps it was more of an effort by the aliens to keep their worshipers from realizing that they were simply flesh and blood creatures as well. Perhaps they simply killed anyone who gazed upon them because that could potentially undermine their authority.

One way to make sure people don't get hurt is to exaggerate a bit on the dangers such as radiation poisoning. But artifacts like the Ark of the Covenant were said to of created a jolt of electricity that was lethal to humans.

As for the being scared or shocked to death, that could happen if one sees a Reptilian type creature especially when they were taught that is what the devil looked like.

Again, it is speculation on my part for this thread. These are possible reasons why people were forbidden to gaze upon the face of God, especially if the god in question was a Reptilian alien.

[phoenix]

The different alien races

As far as I am concerned ancient texts mentions at least four alien races that all came from somewhere in space. Those are the various angels (1), The watchers (2), The Grigori(3) and Sataniel (and the Satan’s) (4).

Please keep in mind that it is the alien themselves that repeatedly claim that human beings were created in their image and their likeness.

The general multitude of angels

Lets first take a look at the general multitude of “angels” that we can read about in various ancient texts. They all seems to be human.Take for instance the angels that visited Abraham right before they destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. They were all like humans. In fact Abraham didn’t quite understand that they were aliens before a good while after they had arrived. Michael, Gabriel , Uriel, Raphael and hundreds of other angels described in the books of Enoch and elsewhere seems all to have been human beings. I have written before that these colonist’s most likely was a mixture of several races themselves and that is why human beings on earth today are a mixture of several races. They are our forefathers that not only created us in their image and likeness, but also in various races like themselves.

I think of course the colonist leaders themselves were human-like as well as the other “angels”. Why should they be different ?. Although they had a rule never to show themselves to humans and don’t reveal their real names, they were no different than the others. It was perhaps the leaders shiny white uniforms and the soldiers strange uniforms that created the myths that they were different. It might also be possible that such myths (that they should be reptilian beings) arose because some of the colonists were seen wearing space suits or diving suits or something. We know that special (alien) clothing often did lead to false conclusions.

The watchers

Another alien race mentioned in the book of Enoch are the Watchers (the fallen angels). According to Enoch they all looked human-like and were probably small giants. They eventually intermingled with the human beings and got offspring with the humans that became various races of giants .

The Grigori

The third alien race we can read about in the book of Enoch are the Grigori. They too were giants, but they nevertheless looked like human beings. They are described by Enoch to have limited resources and interlect. In my opinion the Grigori must not be confused with the watchers, who were a highly resourceful and capable race of aliens who even did experimenting on the source of life itself as they created new creatures on earth that was a mixture of several different animals and even creatures who was a mixture of man and animals. One can read about this in the books of Enoch, the book(s) of giants and the book of the generations of Adam.

Sataniel (Satan) and the Satans’s

The fourth and last alien race many acient texts tells us about is Sataniel/Samael (Satan) and the Satan’s. Many texts claims that Sataniel had a horn in his forehead or had animal legs , or even had or could take the guise of a snake. That’s simply not true. Sataniel was once an archon and became the forefather of the negroid races and was of course human-like.

Regards
Phoenix

[Buzi-Blu]

Although my interpretations are very different (see my other threads), the accidents recorded in the Bible interest me also.

First, at about the time the Ten Commandments are made, Moses gets his face burnt.
Later, Aaron's two sons Abihu and Nadab stand before the Holy of Holies carrying metal incense burners. A flame leaps from Yahweh and kills them. Aaron says nothing. Note this implies Yahweh is inside.
Aaron and Miriam get skin diseases on their faces, which later clear. So-called leprosy is a common theme.
Moses uses the incense burner trick to kill some rebels.

Much later, Uzzah touches what is said to be the Ark on a cart and is instantly struck dead (why is it on a cart?).
The Philistines capture the Ark some time later and suffer from vomiting, tumours and diarrhea. They send it back on a cart. The Ark then kills 70 Isrealites before the Levite priests arrive.

A few centuries on, c. 740 BC King Uzziah (="My stength is Yah", oddly similar to Uzzah) insists on going into the Holy of Holies carrying a metal incense burner. Needless to say, a skin disease breaks out on his forehead. He dies soon after, but it's not known if it is related to the injury. At about this time Isaiah gets a glimpse into the Holy of Holies and sees Yahweh on his throne, he then becomes a prophet.

Very odd.

[Felix]

But why God wouldn't show his face? Was he scared to stay near by the man?
The fact that, as mentioned in the beginning of the Bible, He was looking like the man was something to be ashame of? or something that would show His vulnerability?
Do we have to think that God show Him self to Moses in a sphere of plasma to pretect Him self, or that was just a machine to represent Him?

[Buzi-Blu]

This Wiki site neatly explains the traditional ideas of the Shekhinah:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shekhinah

(Note the bit about the Glory of the LORD). For me, it's simply that dangerous object (aka Yahweh) that sat in the Holy of Holies. But of course, when it disappears the Jews cannot say Yahweh has vanished so from that point on Yahweh takes on a spiritual form living in heaven. Before that point he was very much said to be actually in there.

I've just dug out my old notes on this taken from the Encyclopaedia Judaica, not particularly good notes but this is what I wrote:

The Rabbis interpret the following verses as -
You cannot see the face of My Shekhinah. for there shall no man see me and live [Ex. 33:20]
And from the Targum (Aramiac Translation of the Bible) -
"To put his name there" should be "To rest His Shekhinah there"

The phrase could mean two things. Either that looking at the face is dangerous, or that it's a secret and anyone who sees it must be killed. Whether you think it's a manna machine or not is another matter.

[Felix]

Anyway I find phoenix explanation good enough. Perhaps not convincing the hypothesis of reptilian aliens expressed by maxmercury because it conflicts with the Genesis words "in His image and lickness".
In the prior post I mentioned Moses in a sphere of plasma because I saw lately on History Channel a documentary speaking of future weapons, laser, microwaves and force fields, these force fields are supposed to be created with plasma. Assuming that a commander never meets anyone without a protection and that "God also spoke to Moses through the 'shekhinah' out of a burning bush." I thougth that that could have been perhaps a plasma force field.

[Moon]

Anyway I find phoenix explanation good enough. Perhaps not convincing the hypothesis of reptilian aliens expressed by maxmercury because it conflicts with the Genesis words "in His image and lickness".
In the prior post I mentioned Moses in a sphere of plasma because I saw lately on History Channel a documentary speaking of future weapons, laser, microwaves and force fields, these force fields are supposed to be created with plasma. Assuming that a commander never meets anyone without a protection and that "God also spoke to Moses through the 'shekhinah' out of a burning bush." I thougth that that could have been perhaps a plasma force field.

Before reading Jim Marrs' Rule By Secrecy I would never of given it much thought about why people were told not to look at "God". They never really discussed it in Sunday School so it was something that was just ignored. Mr Marrs' book made a lot more sense than what I was taught in Sunday School and when I saw this thread I figured I would run that idea for some feedback.

[Felix]

That's ok maxmercury, we are here to talk, some idea is valid some other not but it is exiting because we are all intersted in these arguments. I believe it is important to avoid to transorm the AAT in a kind of new christianity.

[Buzi-Blu]

The problem I have with all this is in the wider logic. If Moses. for example, is being guided by some enlightened leadership of an extraterrestrial the how come it continues to be barbaric tribal warfare, exactly as expected? There is nothing in the course of history during these times that indicates influence from outside.

A rough mountain top has to be one of the most unsuitable places to land a spacecraft, and for what purpose? I just don't buy it.

[Moon]

That's ok maxmercury, we are here to talk, some idea is valid some other not but it is exiting because we are all intersted in these arguments. I believe it is important to avoid to transorm the AAT in a kind of new christianity.

Your point is one of the reasons why I had a problem with using the word believer as the debunkers pounce on it and claim we are starting a new religion. The idea is for us to gather evidence to support the claims and not just follow along blindly. I do think people in the AAT field follow that advice of looking for the evidence than others out there as I have read some very interesting books on these subjects. Some of the authors disagree with each other, but they do present some very interesting evidence that has yet to be explained by the mainstreamers.

While I was on another forum, I was chastised by many of the members for asking questions like:

If the Ancient South Americans had wheels for their toys, why didn't they have larger ones for use of transporting?

I was their job was not to ask any of those questions, just look at what they already know. To me, that was a very important question which needed looking into.

In a sense, what the some of mainstreamers do is religious in nature also. They do not ask questions and just accept what has been taught for the most part. (Again, not all, but some.)

[Buzi-Blu]

I decided to actually look up what "Glory of the LORD" means in Hebrew.

glory=KBVD (where V, vav, is pronounced O), so it's kabod. Comes from the root KBD meaning to be heavy.
Same word as in Amharic (Ethiopian) which I already knew, interestingly enough.

LORD=YHVH of course, usually written YHWH.

So, the general meaning is connected with heaviness. A typical scenario therefore is that of the cloud appearing over the Tabernacle when the heaviness of Yahweh fills it. Whatever that may mean.

[3d monkey]

They had not telescopes then. They saw it only when coming or passing.

The face when coming:




It passes the eye witness safely:


A heavenly being seen in a telescope:


Its name was simply Owl & Boas, a huge soaring night bird chased by two giant snakes. Also known as Cetzalcoatl and Phoenix & Dragon(s).

And yes, also known as the commander of armies in a chariot pulled by winged beasts. And sometimes the chariot lost its wheel that fell on earth. A heavenly chariot seen on the sky:

[tajds5]

A person can most definitely die from the shock of seeing something they perceive as terrifying. It happens in modern society. It could have also happened in ancient times. The adrenaline rush that comes from our fight or flight mechanisms can be more than enough to kill someone with pre-existing heart disease.

Regarding the writing of the commandments: I have always questioned the statement "Written by the finger of God". We know the ability to etch and engrave stone by means of laser is possible. Could it be that what was perceived as "the finger of God" was actually a laser beam coming from the proximity of "God's" hand? Imagine the way an engraving tool is held- or a stylus- and it isn't hard to see that someone viewing this for the first time could misinterpret it as literally coming from the fingertips.

[drgt82]

my first thought when i read the title was that the actual physical image of "god" woud be too great for the human mind to handle. there are certain things people see that causes them never to be the same again. even to the extent of the mind/phyche actually breaking.
but then after reading through the post and the responses and i am likening the idea that they wanted to conceal their true physical identity. they could not put the absolute truth out there like that. from what "they" have been doing here on this planet trying to cutivate a certain level of decency and morality yt introducing religion to civilization, it could all crumble by "them" saying "well, we are basically just ike you but waaaaaay smarter." or if they had reptilian features the same thing would be done by catching a glimpse of them. it would turn the world of whoever saw it upside down.
and yes in that first post it did seem like they were taking about a spaceship. thank you for putting it in laymen's, lol.

[cRush]

I believe the general Bible taught philosophy behind this is that because God is so holy, anyone who were too look upon his face without his explicit permission would be smite by his holiness.

[Buzi-Blu]

I'm always wary of English translations and unintended modern meanings. Holy for example simply means clean, it's all about cleanliness and food production (manna), and the priests are dressed accordingly. The god sits inside and is not for public view. The priests go about their duties with the occasional industrial accident. "...Give us this day our daily bread..."

Nothing supernatural, nothing about the afterlife, and all very practical, and then the usual human power struggles.

[cRush]

I'm always wary of English translations and unintended modern meanings. Holy for example simply means clean, it's all about cleanliness and food production (manna), and the priests are dressed accordingly. The god sits inside and is not for public view. The priests go about their duties with the occasional industrial accident. "...Give us this day our daily bread..."

Nothing supernatural, nothing about the afterlife, and all very practical, and then the usual human power struggles.

Holy doesn't simply mean clean. It means absolute purity in a divine, supernatural sense that cannot be achieved by mere mortals. It means sacred, consecrated, or hallowed. All of these words imply a supernatural divinity.

If you are going to make the claim that the original verses dealing with "No one can see my face and live" were intended to state holy as simple cleanliness, then please state to which verse you refer and what Hebrew words you are interpreting as "clean in a non-supernatural sense". As we all know, words in any language can take on extended meanings depending upon the context in which they are interwoven. Hebrew and Greek are no exceptions. So, let us examine the original verses in their native form. Does anyone have a reference to this concept?

[Pons Asinorum]

I'm always wary of English translations and unintended modern meanings. Holy for example simply means clean, it's all about cleanliness and food production (manna), and the priests are dressed accordingly. The god sits inside and is not for public view. The priests go about their duties with the occasional industrial accident. "...Give us this day our daily bread..."

Nothing supernatural, nothing about the afterlife, and all very practical, and then the usual human power struggles.

Holy doesn't simply mean clean. It means absolute purity in a divine, supernatural sense that cannot be achieved by mere mortals. It means sacred, consecrated, or hallowed. All of these words imply a supernatural divinity.

If you are going to make the claim that the original verses dealing with "No one can see my face and live" were intended to state holy as simple cleanliness, then please state to which verse you refer and what Hebrew words you are interpreting as "clean in a non-supernatural sense". As we all know, words in any language can take on extended meanings depending upon the context in which they are interwoven. Hebrew and Greek are no exceptions. So, let us examine the original verses in their native form. Does anyone have a reference to this concept?

I do not know Hebrew, but I have read that the ancient Hebrew translation for holy is synonymous with apart. In other words, holy simply means apart (or to set apart) in ancient Hebrew.

Here is a reference from the the Book of Leviticus (translated from Hebrew into English):

כו וִהְיִיתֶם לִי קְדֹשִׁים, כִּי קָדוֹשׁ אֲנִי יְהוָה; וָאַבְדִּל אֶתְכֶם מִן-הָעַמִּים, לִהְיוֹת לִי

And ye shall be holy unto Me; for I the LORD am holy, and have set you apart from the peoples, that ye should be Mine.

So a Holy People means a people set apart from all other people. A holy LORD means a Divine Entity set apart from all other deities.

Something like that -- IIRC, I read it in a book called "The Science of G_d" by Dr. Gerald L. Schroeder.

[Buzi-Blu]

Hmmm, OK maybe my memory is acting up. I'll have to look this up when I get home. The Hebrew for holy is based on the root Q-D-Sh, which perhaps I have confused with something else - will post in an edit later. In general though, it is difficult to retrospectively say what a word meant.

The relevant verse is Exodus 33:20
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0233.htm

and "face" is P-N-I which also means nose I think but don't quote me on that.

EDIT:
Yes, you are both correct and I have somehow got this confused. According to my Davidson's The Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon Q-D-Sh means holy or has a theme of being set apart/separate. I find that interesting: The Holy One being hidden and unseen. Anyway, thanks for pointing out my error.

Aha! The Manna-Machine (1978), p. 77: "it is of interest that the word 'holy', qadosh, also means 'clean'" - that's where I got the idea from. Always pays to check every source, that one caught me out.

[Pons Asinorum]

Thanks for running that down, Buzi-Blu. I was not real sure myself.

Also, thanks for pointing out: Davidson's The Analytical Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon! Was not aware of it -- that is a much appreciated source.