Ice Age?

[Zombi2012]

How do we know that there was a "ice age"? I cant think of any way we could know. What evidence do we have? What methods or techniques do we use?

Im not saying that there wasnt one, i just want to know how we know.

[Bob137]

The ice cores, and the geological data of ice sheets prove that there were many ice ages at different times, a cooling of the earth they surmise, but I have another theory, that maybe the earth's crust shifts to different locals, and the last ice age, our continent was around the North Pole, and that afterwards it shifted downward to it's present location! I think we may be in for another earth crust shifting, and that all the continents will shift, with the Asian continent shifting upward to on the North Pole, and that our continent will shift downward toward the equator. The magnetic North is already shifting toward Russia which is reported by scientist that keep a check on it. If the earth does not actually completely shift, maybe just our crust on the earth shifts, as is supported by the earth crust shifting geographical data, even though is says it takes thousands of years, maybe it is a much more dramatic effect at a lower level, than we have perceived previously. This is just a theory I have, and would appreciate any and all possible scenarios , and discussion on this subject.

[paland]

Some believe that the piles of scree/rocks/logs that lie around area's and which some scientist claim is a border of an ice sheet, are actually debris from a giant tsumani from about 13,000 years ago..

[Moon]

How do we know that there was a "ice age"? I cant think of any way we could know. What evidence do we have? What methods or techniques do we use?

Im not saying that there wasnt one, i just want to know how we know.

Geologists look at the erosion levels of the lakes created by the ice sheets and also check out the rocks that have been moved by them.

The Great Lakes are very new and were carved out by the last ice age. Again, erosion and other aspects are studied by geoloists to determine this.

[Sagittarii]

Watch the program "How the Earth was Made" it's the episode about how the Great Lakes formed.

Supposedly the Great Lakes are far smaller today than what they used to be and they're drying up everyday. They're drying up because the ground below the glaciers is still rebounding after 10,000 years (glaciers were so heavy it pushed the crust down 1000's of feet) and it's causing the tributaries that feed the Great Lake to be lower than the lakes themselves (the lakes are rising in height sorta like if you press down on a pillow and lift your hand the pillow will rise to take it's original shape...same concept) so the water cannot enter the lakes anymore like it used to.

So yea the Ice Age is real. Actually there have been MANY ice ages over millions of years....core samples can prove that too.

[Bob137]

Part of why the Great Lakes is drying up, couldn't have anything to do with the Chinese owned water bottling plant sucking up the water, could it?

[Polaris]

Part of why the Great Lakes is drying up, couldn't have anything to do with the Chinese owned water bottling plant sucking up the water, could it?

WTF are you saying Bob137. Civilization slur!!... aren't we in this together?... on a scale of increasing intolerance (one to ten), please rate your current level of intolerance.

Are you perhaps, subconsciously, referring to American consumerism...

And more to the point, the science of geomorphology is used to study the ice ages. A geology degree usually precedes... Isostatic rebound is the principle that you refer to. A study of the drainage basins of the Great Lakes would help determine net in/out flows. The last time I looked Hudson Bay was still rising, as evidenced by the raised beaches.

The end of the giant animals of Ice Age North America was a catastrophic event, that after all said and done, wiped out the wooly mammoth, saber-tooth tiger, elk, beaver, deer, bear, etc... circa 13,955 BC. (In another post I have Noah's Tsunami at 9717 BC).

[Bob137]

I have read, and seen on the History Channel of the ice age time period, the ice flows, and retreats, and the geological data supporting it. I was just commenting about a company that is utilizing the Great Lakes for profit, as is ol' Perkins in Texas utilizing the Aquafier for profit the same way! I know we have had numerous ice ages, and the latest large one was the one from around 8,000 BC to 14,000 BC. I also know that data in regards to the shifting of the earth, is not an accurate science as of yet, and is still in it's infancy. It is possible, and highly probable that either the earth shifted, or the crust shifted, and that could have a lot to do with it, or the earth was farther away from the sun, or a sun cycle of less heat, so many possibilities for the actual reason for the ice age!

[Moon]

Part of why the Great Lakes is drying up, couldn't have anything to do with the Chinese owned water bottling plant sucking up the water, could it?

WTF are you saying Bob137. Civilization slur!!... aren't we in this together?... on a scale of increasing intolerance (one to ten), please rate your current level of intolerance.

Are you perhaps, subconsciously, referring to American consumerism...

And more to the point, the science of geomorphology is used to study the ice ages. A geology degree usually precedes... Isostatic rebound is the principle that you refer to. A study of the drainage basins of the Great Lakes would help determine net in/out flows. The last time I looked Hudson Bay was still rising, as evidenced by the raised beaches.

The end of the giant animals of Ice Age North America was a catastrophic event, that after all said and done, wiped out the wooly mammoth, saber-tooth tiger, elk, beaver, deer, bear, etc... circa 13,955 BC. (In another post I have Noah's Tsunami at 9717 BC).

Please maintain a civil tone here, Polaris. If you have a problem with someone's post, please notify a moderator or an administrator of it and we will deal with it. I did not find any major problem with what was stated by Bob137.

[Sagittarii]

LOL

[Polaris]

Part of why the Great Lakes is drying up, couldn't have anything to do with the Chinese owned water bottling plant sucking up the water, could it?

WTF are you saying Bob137. Civilization slur!!... aren't we in this together?... on a scale of increasing intolerance (one to ten), please rate your current level of intolerance.

Are you perhaps, subconsciously, referring to American consumerism...

And more to the point, the science of geomorphology is used to study the ice ages. A geology degree usually precedes... Isostatic rebound is the principle that you refer to. A study of the drainage basins of the Great Lakes would help determine net in/out flows. The last time I looked Hudson Bay was still rising, as evidenced by the raised beaches.

The end of the giant animals of Ice Age North America was a catastrophic event, that after all said and done, wiped out the wooly mammoth, saber-tooth tiger, elk, beaver, deer, bear, etc... circa 13,955 BC. (In another post I have Noah's Tsunami at 9717 BC).

Please maintain a civil tone here, Polaris. If you have a problem with someone's post, please notify a moderator or an administrator of it and we will deal with it. I did not find any major problem with what was stated by Bob137.

I officially notify moderator Max, that Bob137 made a cultural slur against Chinese people. As he so delicately avoided my comment and in all likelihood hopes it will just going away...
I propose that Bob137 retracted his slur and apologize to the Chinese civilization for his bigot views and must vow never to perpetuate that attitude again.

[Pons Asinorum]

Part of why the Great Lakes is drying up, couldn't have anything to do with the Chinese owned water bottling plant sucking up the water, could it?

I officially notify moderator Max, that Bob137 made a cultural slur against Chinese people. As he so delicately avoided my comment and in all likelihood hopes it will just going away...
I propose that Bob137 retracted his slur and apologize to the Chinese civilization for his bigot views and must vow never to perpetuate that attitude again.

Polaris, your assumptions are in error. Bob137's statement is not even remotely racist because:

a) a statement about a foreign company bottling water has no racist context, in of itself.
b) any factor that takes water out of the Great Lakes is a legitimate subject for discussion when contemplating the replenishing rate of the Great Lakes.
c) Chinese company ≠ Chinese civilization; to make such a moral equivalence is a falsehood.
d) it is not racist just because the word “Chinese” is used.

You assumed facts not stated and then made a false accusation based on those assumption(s).

--

Polaris, you may want to consider rescinding your accusation that Bob137 has bigoted views (unwarranted and false) and that he made a slur against "Chinese civilization" (a falsehood). You may also want to consider rendering an apology to him for making such accusations. You may want to do this before the other moderators see your previous thread, as I suspect they will not be happy.

Your choice.

[Ace Rimmer]

Part of why the Great Lakes is drying up, couldn't have anything to do with the Chinese owned water bottling plant sucking up the water, could it?

I officially notify moderator Max, that Bob137 made a cultural slur against Chinese people. As he so delicately avoided my comment and in all likelihood hopes it will just going away...
I propose that Bob137 retracted his slur and apologize to the Chinese civilization for his bigot views and must vow never to perpetuate that attitude again.

Polaris, your assumptions are in error. Bob137's statement is not even remotely racist because:

a) a statement about a foreign company bottling water has no racist context, in of itself.
b) any factor that takes water out of the Great Lakes is a legitimate subject for discussion when contemplating the replenishing rate of the Great Lakes.
c) Chinese company ≠ Chinese civilization; to make such a moral equivalence is a falsehood.
d) it is not racist just because the word “Chinese” is used.

You assumed facts not stated and then made a false accusation based on those assumption(s).

--

Polaris, you may want to consider rescinding your accusation that Bob137 has bigoted views (unwarranted and false) and that he made a slur against "Chinese civilization" (a falsehood). You may also want to consider rendering an apology to him for making such accusations. You may want to do this before the other moderators see your previous thread, as I suspect they will not be happy.

Your choice.

Well said Max and Pons.
I can read no racial slur in Bob's comment either. I think you owe Bob an apology as well. And as far as Bob ignoring what you said, he was taking the high road in my estimation.

[Bob137]

Don't worry about an apology, I guess I should have just stuck to the topic, and not commented on water departing the Great Lakes. I really was not trying to avoid his statement. I just hope we are not in for another ice age, I do not like cold weather, since I got frost bite in 1977. The cold really hurts my joints. It seems we are in for more weather anomalies, and earth like catastrophies though. I have read from Astronomers we are in for a Solar maximum, so no telling what all that will bring.

[Sagittarii]

Some people are too darn sensitive. What's this world coming to?

Meow

[Polaris]

Call me sensitive, looks like I am guilty. It is still a slur - the thin edge of the wedge - against Chinese people.

Pons A. I am shocked by your use of the word racist. You were 'shouting' at me in previous posts "there is only one race on earth" - and not the five that I said there are - so I now use the term civilization...

I disagree with your dissection and analysis - I find it very myopic and in need of the larger context. There is no Chinese water bottling company draining the water out of the Great Lakes - do you know of one?
Bob137 could have made his point without identifying one particular civilization. Yet he chose to identify the Chinese - why?

Bob137, I still think you intended a slur, if so, you know what to do. If you were just being flippant, then I apologize - and suffice to say, that I do not share your 'sense of humour'. And I will continue to debate your views until we can agree on Annunaki involvement with mankind, past, present and future...

[Jeff Sheets]

Some people are too darn sensitive. What's this world coming to?
Meow

Hey, I'm a sensitive guy and I own a cat. Are you trying to marginalize sensitivity or cats?
Cause if you are, I'm calling foul right now...
LOL

...sorry. off topic.

I am from the great lakes area and I know that there is more fresh water there than there needs to be. Now if there is some darn corporation that is siphoning off water, it better be an american one...oops, did I just impugn corporations?
-Jeff

[Bob137]

I don't have the time to look up the site again, on the siphoning of water for bottling water by a corporation, that is owned by an "Asian" country, which happens to be China! I was not putting the Chinese down, just stating who the corporation was owned by. If there is a problem with a certain business of a people and that they are Americans, and I say the Americans owned the corporation, would you take offense to that? When it comes to the Anunnaki, there is still more to be learned, such as with the ancient civilizations of India. I do not however completely agree with Sitchin, but I do believe he has some great documentation and books. I just have found Michael Cremo's books and others to be more accurate, so I prefer to go by there studies. I have my own studies of the past, and I refer to them also. Another person on this forum has a problem with me because I do not fully believe the book of Urantia, sorry guys, but I am speculative of all kinds of things, and need further proof and further information for me to take everything at face value. I like all those books by those authors, and agree on many points, but I am still learning by reading more, and more, and have not just come to a conclusion based on just a few, or one. So many people have concluded from being told what the Bible says, that they believe completely on faith what their pastor, or minister, or priest, or whatever says. I am not like that, I question almost everything, not to say I am never wrong. I am wrong many times and I do admit it, sometimes not right away, but I do finally admit if I am incorrect. I like reading all your posts, and go to the url's that are put on here for all, and I agree with a lot, just not everything. If that seems to upset some, well I get upset to when people try to get me to come to their belief, just because they say so, reminds me of Jehovah witness's, I hope that did not offend anyone, stating on the witness's, or Christians, but I am no Christian! Ignore me, if it helps, I will try not to upset anyone by my speculative nature.

[Gemini]

Jesse Ventura did an episode on the Great Lakes water being shipped by corporation(s) out of the U.S. to China, as well as other topics. If you're interested in watching just search on youtube.

[Pons Asinorum]

Pons A. I am shocked by your use of the word racist. You were 'shouting' at me in previous posts "there is only one race on earth" - and not the five that I said there are - so I now use the term civilization...

You stated that people who disagreed with your view are propagating “lies," which is where we parted ways.

Race has a social and political context, which was also pointed out to you in that same thread. That fact that you have conveniently ignored that in the face of this context is somewhat silly.

Feel free to use whatever term you wish. Feel free to use it in a correct or incorrect context (for some, it might be difficult to figure out).

I disagree with your dissection and analysis – I find it very myopic and in need of the larger context.

I bet.

Justifying a false accusation is complicated and typically cannot stand the scrutiny of close examination of only the explicit facts. It often needs external assumptions for support, as in this case.

There is no Chinese water bottling company draining the water out of the Great Lakes - do you know of one?

Never said there is one, nor is it relevant in your accusation of racism.

Bob137 could have made his point without identifying one particular civilization. Yet he chose to identify the Chinese - why?

You could have made your point without accusing him of racism, but you did not. You simply assumed he was being racist.

He cited a television program for his info. He was faithfully reproducing the information he had heard as a matter of accuracy to his source (incredible, if that really needed explaining). If you disagree with his source, then join the club, I am also doubtful of source’s claim (which I also believe was: Conspiracy Theory with Jess Ventura).

Making the worse possible assumptions about people (lies on a different thread, racism on this one), simply because they disagree with you, implies an inability to have a mature and reasoned discussion. It certainly is against the spirit of this forum and in general, most distasteful.

--

Meow

You sir, are a cat-ist!

...oops, did I just impugn corporations?

You sir, are a corporate-ist!


It's getting to the point were if one says anything they are a fill-in-the-blank-ist.

--

I hope that did not offend anyone, stating on the witness's, or Christians, but I am no Christian! Ignore me, if it helps, I will try not to upset anyone by my speculative nature.

You and I have disagreed many (alright, many, many ) times, but not in a single instance did you do anything untoward.

At worst, you made me laugh, and at best you made me think.

Please do not change! (Especially over this current nonsense).

Bob: you have almost a thousand posts, please do not feel constrained or that the thought-police have arrived -- rest assured, they have not.

[Polaris]

I don't have the time to look up the site again, on the siphoning of water for bottling water by a corporation, that is owned by an "Asian" country, which happens to be China! I was not putting the Chinese down, just stating who the corporation was owned by. If there is a problem with a certain business of a people and that they are Americans, and I say the Americans owned the corporation, would you take offense to that?

Bob137 you have lots of supporters...a 'twisted word here and a fabrication there' - all is good again...detail for another post...

Your word is your bond, you said the comment was not meant as a racist slur against a particular civilization, then so be it - I am fine with that - agreed?
Hopefully I would come to the defense of any ethnic group if racist slurs were being hurled at them, including the Americans. I somehow think they wouldn't need my help...

When it comes to the Anunnaki, there is still more to be learned, such as with the ancient civilizations of India. I do not however completely agree with Sitchin, but I do believe he has some great documentation and books. I just have found Michael Cremo's books and others to be more accurate, so I prefer to go by there studies. I have my own studies of the past, and I refer to them also. Another person on this forum has a problem with me because I do not fully believe the book of Urantia, sorry guys,...

From all the posts that I've read, most contributors have a problem with the zeal of the Urantia believer(s), including myself.

but I am speculative of all kinds of things, and need further proof and further information for me to take everything at face value. I like all those books by those authors, and agree on many points, but I am still learning by reading more, and more, and have not just come to a conclusion based on just a few, or one. So many people have concluded from being told what the Bible says, that they believe completely on faith what their pastor, or minister, or priest, or whatever says. I am not like that, I question almost everything, not to say I am never wrong. I am wrong many times and I do admit it, sometimes not right away, but I do finally admit if I am incorrect. I like reading all your posts, and go to the url's that are put on here for all, and I agree with a lot, just not everything. If that seems to upset some, well I get upset to when people try to get me to come to their belief, just because they say so, reminds me of Jehovah witness's, I hope that did not offend anyone, stating on the witness's, or Christians, but I am no Christian! Ignore me, if it helps, I will try not to upset anyone by my speculative nature.

Speculation is good Bob137, it keeps the mind active, but I won't ignore you...

Let me test your beliefs: Do you believe that the Ancient Aliens referred to in ancient texts (religious or otherwise) are all one and the same alien race, ie., the Annunaki from Nibiru.
Yes
No
Not sure

[Bob137]

I believe it is possible. I think the Sumerians and the Israelites were most likely the same, and possibly the Egyptians also, but the Krishna and such from India I do not think were the same, but I could be wrong on that, I will have to research more on the connections, and similarities, and differences. It is possible that there were different ET's here at different time periods, and not from the same solar system. I did check out a book on the similarities of the Summerians, and Israelites, and Egyptians, and it did have close ties, but it did not include the Vedic, Krishna from India.

[Jeff Sheets]

Glad to see that sorted out.

Everyone please take note: If you make a mistake, own up and move on. No one is the worse for it.
That's why we usually offer second and sometimes third chances.

...except for spammers. They get booted and banned the minute we discover them.

uh, topic:
I believe that there have been many races here over the eons. The blue gods of India do seem to be a different bunch than the Annunaki. I also think the great apes are the deevolution from, rather than the forerunners of the homo genus.

[Polaris]

If Mayan calendrics are true and we are beginning the sixth sun at the vernal equinox of 2013, our journey has been about 30,752 greg. years and we are less than half way, if the journey is 13 suns long.

Given that the earth has orbited the sun billions of times, the Blues are not a stretch and here I thought it came out of the deep south...

I hear yah on the deevolution thing...if we can't crack the code... "they are our fate" just like Flowers for Algernon

[Jeff Sheets]

if we can't crack the code... "they are our fate" just like Flowers for Algernon

Polaris, you mean, "Crack the code" as in figure out how to be sentient and still survive as a civilization?
Yeah, it makes me sad how folks can be so learned and so ignorant at the same time. I'm talking about all sentient life on earth.
We could end up like bonobos or something, cause we chose war...

You know, it just occurred to me that Neandertals may have been the throwback from the previous Earth civilization, while homo-sapiens were just getting a foothold. No wonder their brain capacity was so large for basically nothing.
The cycle goes on and on.

-Jeff

[Polaris]

Yes, that phrase "Crack the Code" has many facets...

Digression has occured in each of the five civilizations as evidenced by none of us being able to duplicate stone construction of old, etc.

Preserving historical records would certainly help reduce or eliminate the rate of descent...I for one would support introducing 'fresh air' into the Vatican archives!!! What's left of Sumerian knowledge resides there, I believe...
I suspect that there is more from the 'New World" that should also see the 'light of day'...

[Bob137]

I also believe we have regressed as has been stated. Our ego's have seen to have exploded into egomaniacs after about 8 to 6 thousand years ago. Since then war has become predominate over friendship. There at least were advanced civilizations prior to that, that may have utilized more brain power, and less verbal communication. I hope we will be able to communicate from mind to mind without the verbal aspect again, at least where we can communicate without cell phones across great distances.

[Sagittarii]

I've never thought or heard about de-evolution......it's almost scary cuz it's very plausible. If humans did have a golden age then doesn't that throw out the AAT?
If early humans were more advanced in a different way than we are now then maybe they didn't experience an intervention after all and all the megaliths were indeed made by more advanced humans that pre-date the great flood.

[Jeff Sheets]

... If humans did have a golden age then doesn't that throw out the AAT?
If early humans were more advanced in a different way than we are now then maybe they didn't experience an intervention after all and all the megaliths were indeed made by more advanced humans that pre-date the great flood.

Actually, I was thinking the opposite. If Humans had somehow already managed to get off this rock and colonize nearby systems, then come back as gods and find throwbacks on Earth, wouldn't they want to dominate them anyway? That could explain how DNA was compatible between humans and the gods...

[Cammi2012]

hey real quick... you know the map that "Name of Dude Escapes Me" drew up way back when that showed the outline of Antartica (or whatever) that was unknown to anyone at the time due to it being covered with ice....? Wouldnt that in itself prove an iceage???

[Bob137]

In regards to prior advanced civilizations, it does not go against the AA Theory, the Extraterrestrials could have helped jump start them in the first place, then when a natural catastrophy happened, (and man made ones), and destroyed them at different times, the ET's come back and help restart them each time. Maybe that is one reason for so much UFO activity again, due to the coming cataclysms!

We decide which is right, and which is an illusion, Moody Blues

[Sagittarii]

I don't know what to believe anymore....i'm going nuts trying to figure it all out.

I'm just going to focus on my bass fishing and drinking this Summer. To hell with it all..lol.

[Bob137]

I was not trying to confuse you Sagittari, here is a book on devolution. Human Devolution by Michael Cremo, it is A Vedic alternative to Darwins Theory. A very good read.

[Ace Rimmer]

I don't know what to believe anymore....i'm going nuts trying to figure it all out.

I'm just going to focus on my bass fishing and drinking this Summer. To hell with it all..lol.

Fishing is overrated.

You have to believe what feels right and makes sense to you. The answer lies within yourself.

Excuse me I have to freshen my drink......

[Polaris]

...We could end up like bonobos or something, cause we chose war...

You know, it just occurred to me that Neandertals may have been the throwback from the previous Earth civilization, while homo-sapiens were just getting a foothold. No wonder their brain capacity was so large for basically nothing.
The cycle goes on and on.

-Jeff

And as you mentioned, the great apes were probably the ones previous to them (2 removed from us)...but we're not going there,

On another matter, I am curious as to how many Ancient Alien Theorists (AATists) interpret the Enuma Elish as the literal description of the creation of the solar system,
the introduction of another planet that then stabilized the system - then provided an opportunity for life to begin in the waters that they all shared.
Life first beginning on Nibiru, the 7th planet and the Igigi were present at the time of creation. And it is the Annunaki that show up, albeit in different ways, in the histories of all five civilizations on earth...that make up humankind on Earth, the 3rd planet...