Winter Laake

[siren13]

This topic spands so many that i thought of just putting it here.

I was wondering if anyone has ever read anything by him. He was on Coast to Coast AM the other night - very interesting and highly intellegent guy which is a far cry from some of their guests lately. He wrote a lot of books on the Satanic believe system, but it isn't anything like I thought after reading up on him after the fact.

I myself AM NOT A SATANIST but I find myself mildly fascinated by the subject matter. I myself am a spiritual person while they do not believe in any GODS they whorship themselves.

He was even humorous and thoughtful I guess I have this preconceived notion of what a Satanic personality would be and it did not meet the cryteria of it. I had a cousin that was really into Devil Whorship in the 80's and that was not a good thing. Nor what she a good person. So I guess it is just interesting.

[Jeff Sheets]

Hi Siren13,
After researching the topic a bit, I think it belongs in an area that discusses satanic theology, so I moved it here.
However, I personally don't believe in magic so I tend to think of God and Satan as actually Enlil and Enki from Sumerian writings. Opposite sides of the same coin.

So this guy is a bit like Aleister Crowley?

[Moon]

There does seem to be two versions of Satanism. One is the Christianity based version of which Satan is the devil and the other is the Paganism version of which Satan is another form of Pan or Dionysus.

Early Christianity was still competing with many very popular Pagan beliefs including Dionysus, the Green Man, Pan and other fertility gods. Many of those early gods were often depicted as with goat or ram horns which is how modern Satan is depicted. The early Church decided to demonize these popular cults and torture the practitioners. They then created Satan in their image so anyone seeing that image would report it as a sign of the devil.

Mr Laake's books seem to follow the Christian version of what Satanism is. So one could say Mr Laake is a Christian himself.

One thing to remember is if one uses any type of magic it will come back to them ten fold. If one uses it for evil, watch out!

[cRush]

There does seem to be two versions of Satanism. One is the Christianity based version of which Satan is the devil and the other is the Paganism version of which Satan is another form of Pan or Dionysus.

Early Christianity was still competing with many very popular Pagan beliefs including Dionysus, the Green Man, Pan and other fertility gods. Many of those early gods were often depicted as with goat or ram horns which is how modern Satan is depicted. The early Church decided to demonize these popular cults and torture the practitioners. They then created Satan in their image so anyone seeing that image would report it as a sign of the devil.

Mr Laake's books seem to follow the Christian version of what Satanism is. So one could say Mr Laake is a Christian himself.

One thing to remember is if one uses any type of magic it will come back to them ten fold. If one uses it for evil, watch out!

Satan was introduced in the Bible long before the Church was running around persecuting non-believers. Portraying him as having goat or ram horns, however, is most probably exactly as you state: a literary device designed to discredit and persecute non-Christians. It's funny how Christians run around crying about persecution, yet they were persecuting most of the world for not believing as they did. We must be careful, of course, in our generalizations. There are a thousand different offshoots of Christian theology.

[Moon]

Exactly, cRush. As a Pagan myself, I do try to give that perspective to the Christian side of things as they tend to think Paganism=Demonism. I try to show it is just a different trail of the many paths out there to spirituality. If one is a Christian and likes that path, more power to them (my family members are either devout Catholics or Fundamentalist Christians which can make for interesting family gatherings ).

The idea of Lucifer also has been turned into something evil when all Lucifer means is light.

[siren13]

Hi Siren13,
After researching the topic a bit, I think it belongs in an area that discusses satanic theology, so I moved it here.
However, I personally don't believe in magic so I tend to think of God and Satan as actually Enlil and Enki from Sumerian writings. Opposite sides of the same coin.

So this guy is a bit like Aleister Crowley?

So sorry to just be getting back to you Jeff. He wrote a book The Satanic Paradigm, which follows the old LeVeyan thought processes. Before his church was taken over by others. The original thought that goes into it was that YOU ARE YOUR OWN GOD. They do not whorship any deity except oneself. That the power is in your possession. I read several pages of the book on no-corporate-stores-here!. It was a good read I may buy the book just for reading material. He talks at length about the version of Satanism that they whorship the actual DEVIL - in true pagan fashion and after listening to him on Coast to Coast AM he does not follow this side at all. He even talks about how they are no different from Christians which he is neither a satan whorshiper nor is he a devil whorshiper. They only use Satan as a symbol (kind of like an obnoxious type of thing when you really think about it.) the symbol is that it represents their beliefs that they are FREE of all religion and FREE of guilt they can do anything even if there are consequences. Winter Laake did discuss crimes and how he does not believe in crimes because when you commit them it is a higher evil and therefore not a rational thought process that goes into it. He does have a website for anyone interested in ordering his books all that. Or just go to no-corporate-stores-here!. Coast to coast am website does have a highlight of his show from last week.

I have always been a fan of Marilyn Manson's music. (I find his music to not be what people think it is. Alot of it is gothic romantic style of music just sounds horrible to thouse not familiar with it..) Winter Laake is apparently a friend of Brian Warner AKA Manson. Both belong to the same school of thought. It is like atheism with a symbol is the best way to describe it- they basically made a religion out of being atheists.

To each his own, but he does have some good points on politics which is why I enjoyed listening to him on coast to coast am. I am openminded for the most part. But apparently he did study under LeVey. His daughter now took over the old version of the church as opposed to the new version - which is more or less like the stuff you see in bad b-movies.

[Moon]

I should get a couple of his books if they are more about Paganism that Satanism. My main thought after reading the synopsis on some of the books was he followed the Christian concept of what Satan is.

Also, in Wicca and Paganism, most magic (some prefer magick spelling) practiced is for good use and not evil purposes.

I also personally think Satan is another Christian version of Saturn, who was also extremely popular by the Romans at the time of early Christianity. Most Romans celebrated Saturnalia, and Saturn also dealt with the reaping of the crops. He is also the symbol for the modern Grim Reaper version of Death, as Saturn also represented an old man during the autumn harvest season.

Interesting side note, Saturn is also considered to be the forerunner of Santa Clause as Saturn was viewed as a kindly old man during winter who gave out good will and gifts to children. Saturn was also an early fertility god so this might have represented that nature.

What a better way of getting rid of Saturn by turning him into a devil named Satan?

[siren13]

Santa Clause is evil.. he still didn't bring me my car I asked for in the second grade

In all seriousness though I am a wiccan that believes in balance. That even though I practice with the 3 folds in mind I also think it goes against nature to be a 'do gooder' all the time. It isn't my immediate nature. I am human I get furious at people only I don't hex them. I just ask that it goes back to them faster than usual. To teach them a lesson. But in the beginning stages of my new found religion I will admit to having practiced small amounts of dark arts. There is definitely an art to the practice. It isn't for everyone. I chose not to be a dark arts witch though in the long run I did not like the way it made me feel. It felt dirty to want to make someone suffer. I did a lot of silly small binding spells on an ex boyfriend 10 years ago. Than later realized it wasn't my style. And it is not always necessary to do dark majics. Sometimes life has in store for people greater lessons than you or I could teach them.
For example I had a friend that was a guy. He was one of the most two faced people I had ever known (still do know him) he had done something bad to a few of us. I told myself one day he will learn a lesson that you can't be a mean or evil person to someone just for the pleasure of it. I told him that as well and did not speak to him for a year. During that year his girlfriend was killed in a car accident. I felt really bad for him. It changed him in a good way. And I believe everything happens for a reason. People do have things happen to them that in a sense could be viewed as judgement by a higher power or mother nature. I just believed that he was put in this person's path to learn how to be kind to people. To appreciate those that are good to you because they might not be there later on. He is a better person for it. We are now good friends again. He has even discussed that with me. He appologized to me for everything before the tragic event that changed him. He even tells people it made him a better person. So I am against hurting people through magic. The church of Satan does not recognize 3 folds law. They do not believe it will matter if they hurt someone. While I believe in 3 folds I also know that if I were to hex someone I also have to except the consequences of my actions in some form or another.

I try to send a lot of white light to people. But I also don't if I'm mad. That is pretty much as dark as I get. Even though I believe that love cannot exist without hate. In a sense you have to sleep with the devil to learn what love is. if that makes sense with out sounding like I'm contradicting myself. I also believe true evil in the world is man made. I do believe in a devil of sorts because my christian up bringing says he exists- but my belief in him as a person is because I believe we as a collective being on this planet have given him life. He is just a symbol of that evil. It is as easy as sitting in a dark room letting your imagination run wild. Eventually you will see shadow people and other things if you let your mind go there.

It is just unfortunate that as a human species we choose to hurt people for our gain. In that we are probably worse than any Satanic being because they don't do anything if you have read the bible.. the demons in the world don't control us- they can suggest but it is us that pulls the trigger not the other way around.

[Moon]

I couldn't agree with you more, Siren13. We all believe in the Golden Rule of do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[siren13]

Recently I did friend him on FB and he appears to be a gentleman so I guess that goes against peoples theories that because of someone's belief systems they are
EVIL people!

I have an open mind so I'm like whatever floats..

here is a link to that interview by the way..

http://youtu.be/P_pXxW5uEWY

[Moon]

It could also be a matter of semantics on what they call their spirituality. They could practice the ideals of the Golden Rule but just call it by a different name.

[siren13]

I think it's like organized atheism

[rossm477]

wicca and pagan? is there a difference?I thought wicca is a branch of paganism

[siren13]

Pagans tend to be more nature related without the actual base for any entity to look to. In Wicca it tends to be directed more to a female and male deity or many gods - depending on some ideologies. I have read many books I tend to be more directed to male and female aspect of GOD. Or at least the tendencies of male and female.

In satanic religions there is a difference between Theistic and Atheistic. Theistic where they whorship the actual Devil and in Atheistic where they do not believe in any form of god - they are their own god in a sense. They create the laws based on how they choose to live their lives. Anything that benefits themselves - mostly in a positive light- is exceptable. They tend to believe EVIL is a force not a deity. A force you can create with your own magics.

It is a little related to other ancient religions as well.

[Moon]

wicca and pagan? is there a difference?I thought wicca is a branch of paganism

Some state Wicca is a branch of Paganism, but Paganism is more of a journey and does not have any dogma attached to it. A Wiccan is a Pagan, but a Pagan might not be a Wiccan. I am a Pagan but do not consider myself a Wiccan although I have the utmost respect for those who practice it.

The problem is some Christians state any alternate path to spirituality is the devil's work and lump everything together as being Satanic.

[siren13]

Any form of witchcraft is dark regardless of the intent. Satanic beliefs agree with that just like the Christians do.

My path was a natural one. It feels more natural to me than sitting in a church with a pastor and all that. It was never as comfortable to me as loving nature and doing spells (prayers) although I have to admit I'm a really bad wiccan too. I forget my holidays and then later I remember.. I'm a backsliding wiccan. =0) Of course I guess my busy life is part of the reason.

I work and have about an hour in the morning for email computer stuff - then job stuff at work- and then at home cooking dinner hanging with the MAN and the DOG and making time for my silly kitties.. When I have alone time I do blessings or spell stuff. I don't get a lot of alone time.

I guess it is the core of me though.