AAT Skeptics should consider a few things before posting

[Bob137]

I think the majority of politicians are psychopaths! They all seem to be greedy, and stupid, and have no conscious on what they do.

[Moon]

I do think healthy skepticism is needed in the fringe and paranormal. The point is to keep it constructive and to not become a debunker. Most of the researchers out there have some very good ideas that need further looking into. The debunkers tend to throw out the baby with the bathwater over one small mistake or error. I do think that is a shame as there are many unanswered questions out there.

[isitmeorwhat?]

I know my friend I get very upset about it all too. But it is a sign of the times. But I wouldn't want my life to be anywhere else in time right now no matter what happens. It's like if someone handed you a book and said to you ok you can read any page out of this book you want, but only one page. What page do you think you would want to read? Why i would think it would be the last page that's the one I would want to read. And it seems according to many ancient civilzations and religions we are on that last page. So we must embrace all this the good and the bad and find out how goes this story does end. I am reading and hoping for a happy ending but you never know how a book is gonna end up but we still would all choose the last page no matter what the outcome really. It is just human nature.

[Bob137]

It is true we need skeptics, ones that are doing actual research and more research, and with an open mind. It goes along with us, we need to also keep an open mind, even if it doesn't fit with our own beliefs. I for one am still learning,a nd try to keep an open mind. It is just when such as debunkers that state theories as facts, and if anything out of the ordinary is presented, they talk of those as people with aluminum foil on their heads, and way out there and not inr eality, when in all actuality, they sometimes seem to be way out there, and not living in reality.

[Ace Rimmer]

Life's a crap shoot.

[isitmeorwhat?]

The more skeptics the better I think. It just makes my feelings that much stronger and cause that much greater. We all can be skeptical on something for sure, we all can't agree on everything. But some people are constant skeptics on everything and they get off on trying to make us mad about our views and belief's that's all no matter what that may be. You know, they probably have a hard time believing even in themselves....

[amyrigg]

Good to be skeptical and especially THINK FOR OURSELVES - what is true for me may not be true for you. All the fear crap spread around online etc I figure if it's not happening right here in my front yard it is irrelevant to me - I always hope peace and love for Earth/Universe so that if the fear crap does extend to my life even remotely - it will work itself out with peace and love ... yeah.

[isitmeorwhat?]

Ahhhhhh...Men! (or maybe I should start saying Ahhhh...People!) Anymore we don't want to offend anybody. Plus the ladies have been counted out for awhile now. If it weren't for all you ladies it wouldn't have been possible!

[NRDNA]

What would the world look like without skeptics, it would not be one that I would want to live in. Could you imagine what our historical timeline would look like,.... one straight line that defines our planet and life evenly and perfectly without dispute! How boring! Ideas and opinions would not exist, and surely things like this forum would not exist..... Luckily however they do, and so does AAT.
Could you imagine every artifact explained, every fossil, nothing to wonder over, no facination, no skepticism! Fortunately for us we have all of these wonderful unexplained artifacts that are thrown into a mix of rock and coal and prehistoric ash that has been churned into the annals of time travel that is unexplained to modern science and technology? Without skeptics there would be no concept of mans ability to adapt and change with this exotic planet. His journey would not be obscured by microscopic specks of fossilized evidence we have dug up from just the first layer of skin that makes up a tiny percentage of Earths outer shell. How many millions of layers are still hidden from our eyes, and how many layers have been destroyed by the larger portion of our world that lies molten hundreds of miles beneath our feet? This is where, I believe history has been erased countless times in the remote past. Skeptics, like 'all' of us redefine our existence.
We have just scratched the surface discussing ideas about mans history here on planet Earth, but it is easy to see that if you just think outside the box just slightly you can see how easy it is to debunk a lot of sure things that archaeologists insist are truths. I’m not saying they are all wrong, I’m just opening eyes on how little we actually know, how infinitesimal are the artifacts we have so loosely based are history upon, and how the planet itself has decided on what we should know by constantly hiding facts in a never ending process of self rejuvenation. It just goes to show you how lucky we are to find the things that we do discover on this vast planet, and makes you wonder what we have not. If we have found ancient sea fossils in the highest mountains, what land based fossils are hiding in the deepest oceans? The fact remains we will never know our true history, and it is egotistical to think we ever will. What we think we know today will be different from what we think we know tomorrow, it would be presumptuous for us to ever think we really know about our own true past on this magnificent planet…. Thank you skeptics. NRDNA

[amyrigg]

right on NRDNA - think for yourself - that's what I want to try and do in every moment, and dig every moment i'm allowed to experience and be aware of

[Slapfish]

I suppose we need skeptics but I'm not really here to argue or prove the ancient alien theory. I'm here to discuss this interest of mine with other people who have an open mind about the possibility of alien intervention in human history. IMO the general theory has been proven and now it's a matter of filling out the details. If I wanted to argue I'd join the Zahi Hawas fan club.

[Moon]

I suppose we need skeptics but I'm not really here to argue or prove the ancient alien theory. I'm here to discuss this interest of mine with other people who have an open mind about the possibility of alien intervention in human history. IMO the general theory has been proven and now it's a matter of filling out the details. If I wanted to argue I'd join the Zahi Hawas fan club.

The problem is scientifically, the theory has not been proven. For all the evidence out there someone can state a possible answer:

1. The stories in the Bible and myths: They are just stories and myths just like Harry Potter is today.

2. Ancient depictions of possible ancient astronaut spacesuits: They are ceremonial masks made for rites of passage etc. We then ask: Where are the ceremonial masks they depict? They counter: Where are the ancient spacesuits they are supposed to depict?

3. The Starchild Skull: It is a deformed skull. The DNA tests are showing otherwise, now they want a full genome as a partial test may not be accurate. I agree they need the genome also, but it is a costly and time consuming thing to get done.

4. Drawings and depictions of UFOs: Artwork and artistic interpretation of religious symbols.

5. The monuments, Great Pyramid, etc: Monuments built by slaves used for funeral and other rites.

Again, we can show all the reasons wrong with the answers, but we do need to prove them. This is the most difficult part of the theory as to getting the smoking gun proof we have been visited. You are preaching to the choir with people like me, Slapfish. But I do want to see the proof just like the skeptics and debunkers do. That would really get into their craw as they would have to go back to the drawing board on many of their theories once the AAT is proven.

[Sunrisepony]

I would certainly like to see them try and explain Puma Punku with less than modern age technology when an Engineering Expert on the Engineering Episode said that would be something very difficult to manufacture today let alone the 5,000 years ago it was supposedly built. Even though it was aged to be more like 17,000 years old. Pre-Flood Civilization. If they insisted it was ropes and slaves, and stone / metal tools I'd demand they prove it by replicating it using the same tools they claim were used.

[Moon]

I would certainly like to see them try and explain Puma Punku with less than modern age technology when an Engineering Expert on the Engineering Episode said that would be something very difficult to manufacture today let alone the 5,000 years ago it was supposedly built. Even though it was aged to be more like 17,000 years old. Pre-Flood Civilization. If they insisted it was ropes and slaves, and stone / metal tools I'd demand they prove it by replicating it using the same tools they claim were used.

Since the AAT presents a different and radical theory, it is up to them to prove it not the other way around. The other problem is many of the rock and stone monuments cannot be aged that easily. Erosion is one way, but in arid places it can be much more difficult to try and age some of them.

It is our theory, hence we have to prove it to the mainstreamers. Otherwise, it will never be taken seriously by them.

I find their theories very strained and unbelievable also. It is up to them to prove thousands of slaves did the work with tiny tools.

[Slapfish]

It is our theory, hence we have to prove it to the mainstreamers. Otherwise, it will never be taken seriously by them.

I find their theories very strained and unbelievable also. It is up to them to prove thousands of slaves did the work with tiny tools.

I guess the reality is that is has to be proven to mainstream researchers but IMO it's the holes in mainstream theories that lead me to find other solutions. Even before I was aware of the concept of alien intervention I was fascinated with ancient mystery sites like Egypt and South America. One of the first books I read as a teenager was A View Over Atlantis that discussed the subject of ley lines. I started trying to put the pieces together way back then ( I won't say how "way" back) and there were just too many mysteries with no answers.

For example I wondered, Why did the evolution of culture and society move backwards? Mainstreamers will tell you that human civilization, technology, knowledge etc... moves forward and always evolves. But we have evidence of ancient cultures that appear to know things that later people did not know. They had a sophistication and organization within their societies that disappeared. Why? Human evolution (cultural, societal, intellectual) went backwards. And it happened in many places around the globe. Had it occurred in one place it might make sense if there was a natural disaster or something but all over the world we have signs of very advanced civilization and then civilization devolved.

Why did ancient people build such massive stone buildings? Mainstreamers have proposed that it's the best way to build and so people around the globe just naturally are compelled to build that way. Another theory is that it's just a built in trait, kind of a human instinct. But that doesn't make sense because these people were our descendents and yet we aren't building like this? No modern culture anywhere, ever discovered was ever found to be building giant stone monolithic monuments. We are puzzled by these structures partially because they seem so strange. If it were a universal human instinct to build this way, wouldn't we intrinsically understand them? But we don't.

And we know this was far from the easiest way to build. We consider it an improvement in science or knowledge when we find an easier way to do something. Why did these ancient people all over the world choose to build these structures in the most difficult way possible?

How did they come by such a powerful and economically strong government to organize such an incredible feat of building? That would require a very strong leader and someone who could get people to come together to complete such a huge task. How did that strong of a culture just spring up out of nowhere? Where are the stories of conquerors and the wars and heroes that finally resulted in someone strong enough to do that? Why would such a powerful leader bring together his people for this monumental task and then fail to record any information about who built it and why? Anyone with that much power and influence is usually a huge egomaniac. Where are the records?

Why are all these ancient sites so well planned out and orderly? Our modern cities are not built that way. Our largest and most powerful cities around the globe grew randomly and without order or any planning at all. Sometimes once they became somewhat wealthy they started to plan certain areas to improve the appearance and such, but they were not planned out and built to order. Wouldn't ancient cities be built that way as well? Why would human nature change?

Anyway, these are some of the big questions I constantly wanted to know the answers to and no matter how much I read these questions were either completely ignored or the answers were honestly pathetic. Then comes the AAT theory and suddenly all of these things make sense. Our cultural evolution moved backwards because once the aliens were no longer leading us we fell into a state of anarchy and a lot of knowledge was lost. The aliens were able to rally a workforce because we saw them as Gods. Cities were planned because the aliens created "bases" of operation in different areas around the globe. There were no records of the conquerors because there were none, but there were stories about beings from the stars. The monuments were built in stone because it would last. It might not be the easiest way for us to build but for the aliens it was. They had a technology that made it the best way to build a lasting structure with materials found on the planet.

So as far as I am concerned, the truth of the theory is not in the details, but in the answer that best fits the greater mystery. The rest is just details.

[Bob137]

I agree slapfish. I remember reading books on the themes of cities that were built, and the majority of our present day started out haphazardly after just one dirt road was settled, then another, etc.. and shops put on a main street, then it just spread outwards. There were some cities that did have some organization fromt he start, and kept them just square blocks. I do not see any of just that type of building in ancient cites. They do have some square organization, but most are laid out in patterns, with alignments to stars, and planets, and the moon and sun, eclipses, etc... some of the books on communication and building of cities stated about ancient sites being highly organized, and that for civilization to spread out, it needed to get more organized in various patterns, not just for survival, but for the logistical aspects, and for saving energy, time, and money. One even commented on a layout such as Atlantis's proposed layout of circular rings, and others laid out triangular, and others in polygon, and hexagon shapes. It is strange how ancient civilizations actually laid out their cities very precisely, and today, ours were not laid out so precise, let alone the buildings that are built today, the majority cannot withstand bad weather, let alone disasters, yet many buildings of ancient times still stand today. To me that is a testament to their use of some kind of technology that is equal to, or surpasses our own. Our modern skyscrapers do not even compare to the megalithic sites of yesteryear!

[Serene]

It is our theory, hence we have to prove it to the mainstreamers. Otherwise, it will never be taken seriously by them.

There is absolutely no proof that the String theory is correct - yet it is already widely accepted by many physicists and taken very seriously by "mainstreamers".

[Slapfish]

It is our theory, hence we have to prove it to the mainstreamers. Otherwise, it will never be taken seriously by them.

There is absolutely no proof that the String theory is correct - yet it is already widely accepted by many physicists and taken very seriously by "mainstreamers".

This is a good point. Sometimes people assume that a theory must be proven to be absolutely true before it is of value. That is not correct. A theory is a possible answer to a question or mystery. We prove it to be correct or incorrect through research and scientific discovery and testing. What I hope to see is more people open their minds to the possibility that the AAT theory has merit so it will be put to further credible research.

[Moon]

It is our theory, hence we have to prove it to the mainstreamers. Otherwise, it will never be taken seriously by them.

There is absolutely no proof that the String theory is correct - yet it is already widely accepted by many physicists and taken very seriously by "mainstreamers".

There is absolutely a double standard for our theory and anything mainstream. Since our theory is the one that is the most controversial by far, we have the biggest burden to prove it.

Slapfish, I do agree there is much evidence pointing to ancient ET visitation and possible intervention of our species. But until the Starchild Skull genome is finished and/or some ancient piece of a space craft if found, we are the ones who need to keep looking.

When I see an ancient image which looks amazingly like an astronaut, I tend to ask if they either saw someone wearing a suit. I then look for more of those images from elsewhere and then try to figure out where they might of put such a suit for storage. It would not surprise me if there were some ancients who took or kept a small souvenir of their visitors and put it away somewhere only to forget about it.

Eventually we will find the smoking gun to prove alien visitation. Once that is done, we can move on to filling in all the details of who came from where and why.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. - Dr Carl Sagan
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. - Dr Carl Sagan

Those two quotes are very important for any theory. But the mainstreamers choose to ignore the latter one when it comes to the AAT and that is a shame.

[Pons Asinorum]

There is absolutely no proof that the String theory is correct - yet it is already widely accepted by many physicists and taken very seriously by "mainstreamers".

Ha -- Serene, how true! You can also add "dark matter."

I am a skeptic to AAT, but do see a definite double standard as you pointed out.

(Also, amongst the general public, I think belief in AAT is growing).

[siren13]

Healthy belief as well as skepticism is called "balance"
I am both. I love listening to (nice) debunkers as well as strict hard believers. I find it interesting to weigh both sides of anything before I can really decide for me. I don't hide it on here as you can see from my posts. But I agree with Jeffs post. Being mean or "hey look at me" isn't the way to be either. Didn't we learn this in first grade?

and if someone really upsets you that is what chardonay is for.

[Moon]

Healthy belief as well as skepticism is called "balance"
I am both. I love listening to (nice) debunkers as well as strict hard believers. I find it interesting to weigh both sides of anything before I can really decide for me. I don't hide it on here as you can see from my posts. But I agree with Jeffs post. Being mean or "hey look at me" isn't the way to be either. Didn't we learn this in first grade?

and if someone really upsets you that is what chardonay is for.

I have two skeptical sites I bookmark and go to for a different point of view. I look to them to see if they make any sense or if they are there to just debunk the subject at hand. Some articles are well researched and have good information. Others are truthful and will state the subject is unknown.

But many are just debunked in a way the author did not do any meaningful research on the subject.

While it is true "I Want to Believe", I do look for the evidence before making such a pronouncement. It can be troublesome to just proclaim one's belief in a theory without really checking up on the evidence to support such a case.

[siren13]

Took the words out of my mouth Max..(or keyboard )

[Pons Asinorum]

I find it interesting to weigh both sides of anything before I can really decide for me.

Careful Siren, that would make you a skeptic .

and if someone really upsets you that is what chardonay is for.

I wish. For me, its chocolate chip cookies and about a three pound weight-gain.

[siren13]

hahaha

True! Oh irony..

[Inquiring Mind]

Real skepticism as practiced and first propounded by it's founder Pyrhho in his 'Skeptikoi' philosophical schools entailed the exaltation of certain principles, notably the pursuit of truth, objectivity, open-minded inquiry, suspended judgement and keen discernment. Learn the difference between pseudo-skepticism and real skepticism (there is a huge difference) here at this wonderful website:

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/index.php

[Moon]

Excellent site, Inquiring Mind. I have bookmarked it and also believe pseudo-skepticism is almost a religious dogma when it comes to many out there.

Too many of the skeptical sites will not even go through the information of a UFO case before announcing it as a hoax or another explanation. A good case in point is the Betty and Barney Hill case. The skeptics all claim Barney and Betty saw the planet Jupiter and completely dismiss the report filled out for Project Blue Book. In the report, Barney not only draws the craft he observed through binoculars, but also the otherworldly beings (which he also drew sketches of). This was done way before any hypnosis was done in the case but is never mentioned when people debunk it.

[Pons Asinorum]

Learn the difference between pseudo-skepticism and real skepticism here at this wonderful website:

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/index.php

Interesting site. They have interesting sponsors:

* Why Choose an Online Psychic?
* Spark Attraction with Authentic Women

...and claims:

"Research into Consciousness, Quantum Physics and Psychic Phenomena, etc. explores venues that are unlocking the mysteries of the universe and gateways to other dimensions or levels of reality and consciousness. "

Real skepticism as practiced and first propounded by it's founder Pyrhho in his 'Skeptikoi' philosophical schools entailed the...

Perhaps the distinction is more between ancient skepticism and modern skepticism, rather than real and (implied) fake.

Here is an alternative site (from Stanford University) that explains ancient skepticism and incorporates the thinking of some of its ancient philosophers: "Pyrrho, Timon, Arcesilaus, Carneades, Aenesidemus, and Sextus Empiricus."

Ancient skepticism is most centrally about belief, not knowledge. This reflects an intuition about rationality that is deeply different from modern ideas.

...

The specific focus of ancient skepticism on belief becomes clearer once we consider a third concept [where supension of judgment and beleif being the first two] that figures centrally in ancient discussions: criterion of truth. It is a core ancient intuition that, if we cannot identify an impression as true, we should hold back from making a truth-claim, believing anything, on the basis of it.

This philosophy did evolve over time and ends with Sextus, whose beliefs are touched upon:

Ordinarily we take ourselves to live in a world in which there are bodies, movement, place, time, and so on. But as Sextus argues, we do not have compelling accounts of any of these core conceptions of physics. This leads to suspension of judgment on whether there are bodies, movement, place, time, and so on. Sextus' discussions of physics might add up to a rather far-reaching skepticism about the natural world.

A bit too impractical for me (not to mention hard core), but quite interesting that one could conduct their affairs with such a philosophy: predicated on "nothing is known."

I like how Siren looks at it, much better. It is all about balance: "Healthy belief as well as skepticism."

There is a certain symmetry, elegance and simplicity that is most appealing, IMHO.

[kcanmoore]

Skepticism is normal and healthy- it is what keeps a fish from biting that "J" shaped worm again. What the scientific community seems to have (and has had for a long time) is a rabid denial that anything new can be discovered about any subject that has already been researched. Instead of saying, "Prove it!" they are saying,"It was not discovered during the initial research, therefore it cannot exist!" Those of us who retain both our skepticism and open minds are the seekers of truth. That is why we meet here, to seek the truth.

[Quelquechosedautre]

Suicidal Self-Profiling

Glance around any newspaper stand and you see it. A magazine for the biker, a magazine for the wealthy housewife, a magazine for gay guy, a magazine for the fitness fanatic and so…

Profiling the curse of the modern era.

Everyone is supposed to comply with their “profile”, and to comply with the specifications of the pigeonhole that they are supposed to stay in FOR LIFE.
If you are homeless, you are supposed to be jobless, a drinker and a thief.
If you are a rock star, you are supposed to sleep around, take drugs and tell everyone else about a better, greener way to live as if we are all idiots.
If you are a cop you are supposed to support ever greater search powers.
If you don’t support the bank bailouts, you are supposed to support the OWS movement.

It benefits marketers to foist everyone into a pigeonhole.

Worse, it benefits “the PTB” to class everyone as either “one of them” accepting ALL that they say or to lump them together as “losers” of one category or another, all holding views, some of which are clearly nnn-sense that discredit them, leaving them permanently never empowered..

Insanely, like a herd of people suffering with Stockholm Syndrome, vast numbers of the “unempowered” work around the clock to ensure that everyone who is even slightly similar slots into their little pigeonhole and join the happy throng of unempowered “losers”.

I have, myself, experienced this growing shrill assault by both parties, trying to easy me into being an unempowered “loser”.

For example…

- Homelessness - There have been times in my distant past when I have been homeless, yet I have come under vicious attack by folks because I reject socialism wholly, yet have also come under deadly attack by those criticising me afor being a "socialist" and in one case, was even told by a Tory MP, what was I doing supporting her when "someone like me" ought to be voting for the socialists if I am homeless?
- 9/11 - I believe was an “inside job. As a result, I have suffered positively violent from the “Truthers” because I do not accept that it must have been organized by the US Government, nor that it must have been done for money nor …etc... And unlike the “Truthers”, I believe that its adoption by the New Democratic Party of Canada was not a break though but a castastophy. BUT likewise, I have suffered vicious attacks from those who believe in the Official Story, claiming that I must therefore believe in all this “Truther” bunk which I do not.
- 2012 - I believe that a worldwide disaster might occur. As a result, I have suffer brutal attack from people who say that I must accept “mother earth” and “a shift in consciousness” which I do not, yet also am told that I am a “nutter’ for believing all that bunk that I do not.
- AAT – I believe hat the evidence of Ancient Aliens is overwhelming, yet come under substantive attack as I do not accept the unsubstantiated bunk that ancient aliens would also accept “profiling” and perform as they are “supposed to” by strutting around handing out “messages” for our benefit and using only advanced flashy technology rather than the most simplest means to achieve their end.

Profiling, something that allows others do dump hard proven facts in the trash bin by attaching bunk to it, discrediting it and dispatching believers into the trash bin as “weirdo losers”.

[kcanmoore]

Quelquechosedautre, Do you derive your name from the Sherlock Holmes quote "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" If so, I love it! I agree with you that humanity tend to stick humans into little pigeonholes or boxed and expect them to remain there for life. I hate being categorized for someone else' convenience and I try to break out as often as possible. I don't know how you might perceive this thought, but I believe that there is no American Government or Canadian Government or Kenyan Government any more. I believe that we are already under the control of some entity that plays with nations as if they were Lego blocks.

[Zeppelin1969]

I think yer all wack!!! LMAO. No really, I love the look on a skeptics face when I start telling them a few facts about our ancient history and that look in their eyes when you see their brain finally turn on and start open-mindedly thinking. I especially like talking to reborn Christians. I had someone ask me a couple weeks ago if I was a Christian. I told them no, I actually listen to the words Jesus spoke and try to live by them. Shoulda seen the blank expression I got then.

[caveman82]

Both the battery's for my e-cigaret have died. I'm not happy. At work and can't charge them. This is all irrelevant to you but to me it's like 20 12 x 9 11.

[Jeff Sheets]

Great Sun Tzu quote. It is pretty relevant to my day today.

[caveman82]

Hi mightyisis 1 what is your stance on the AAT. Just out of curiosity. Are you a skeptic.