Do we judge and criticise Beliefs, or Reasons?

[Coomba98]

Hay all,

I was not going to do a thread like this but....meh. (No offence by this thread either!)

Do we judge and criticise Beliefs, or Reasons?

Whats everyones opinion here?

Example by Sam Harris.

Lets forget about religion here, for the first point.

1. When was the last time in our discourse someone was asked to respect someone elses beliefs in, say History, or Biology, or Physics, Mathematics!?

We do not judge and criticise peoples beliefs. We evaluate their reasons!

If my reasons are good enough, for believing what I belive, then you will helplessly believe what I believe! I will give you my reasons and reason are contagious. That is what is it to be a rational human being. Respecting another persons beliefs never enters into it.

2. Just appreciate that, from the moment when we change the subject to 'God' to some mundaine grandiose claim.

If i told you that I believe that there was a diamond buried in my backyard thats the size of a refrigeratror, it might occur to you to ask why? If in response I gave the kinds of answers religious people give, the answers that describe and give the good effects that beliving what I do. So I say things like, 'well this belief gives my life meaning, or closure'. Or I could say 'I wouldnt want to live in a Universe that doesnt have a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my backyard'.

Its pretty clear that responses of this sort are deeply inadequate. There worse than that, these responses of a lunatic, idiot or someone that is delusional. In responding to that way I would have disqualified myself in any position of power in any first world country.

(Having said that just because yuo belive in religion does not mean you are a loonie! Many intelligent people can be deluded, does not mean there mentally unbalanced. Just abit off in there knowledge.

Coomba98

[Buzi-Blu]

Richard Dawkins has argued this exact point - of why do we feel the need to respect other people's religious views but we do not feel this need when it comes to other issues.

Here's one article that also quotes Douglas Adams
http://newhumanist.org.uk/469/time-to-stand-up
And a Youtube video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXHJ-hLjuxM

Any claim or belief, religious or otherwise, ought to be backed up with some reasoning and should not expect automatic belief by others. I'm fed up of people being incredulous because I do not believe in the Biblical god and then expect me to justify it.

And another point that Dawkins makes: we never hear of a Democrat child, or a String Theory daughter. But a Catholic child, or Sunni Muslim child is considered perfectly OK. It is not. This early brainwashing is how religion recruits new members and few rarely escape.

[Moon]

Beliefs are based on faith, reasoning is based on logic. Therefor, we should question the logical conclusions reached by some.

Belief in God is faith, however the Ancient Astronaut Theory is an idea which needs evidences to prove. Many judge the theory without giving it any thought. I do think that is illogical, but I do think the questions many ask are worth merit and should all be analyzed in the long run.

Reasoning is based on questioning and testing the hypothesis.

[Coomba98]

Belief
Noun: An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
Noun: Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.
Faith
Noun: Complete trust or confidence in someone or something.

Buzi-Blu,

Hows it going, ye I think Richard Dawkins makes a few points in some youtube clips ive seen. But I like the way Sam Harris explains it.

The full clip can be found:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3YOIImOoYM
Ive only taken a small anount of this clip and put it in the first post. Interesting person i must say.

Nice article you refered to as well. Hadnt seen that one. But then im only new to Dawkins writings.

Max,

What up!

Im must say belief is not always based on faith. I believe the Sun is going to come up tomorrow. Although that belief is a factual truth, it is still a belief. Just because I know its true doesnt mean its not a belief. Another way of putting that point down would be:- I have a belief in God. And I know its true!

I have a belief that ill be buying a book in the next 2 weeks. However at its core that 'belief' is based on faith.

I have faith that my guitar strings are going to last another week. However, one could snap any second now!

A belief in God is not always and only faith! You have a book to back yourself up with, you have the emotions one can mistake as the pressence of God. All these are part of the reasoning that then changes to a reason which gets to that belief. If all you had was faith, and faith alone to believe in God then nobody would believe it. Faith alone is not a good enough reason unless you choose to believe to better your own life. Again that would be a choice based on the reasoning why you chose to believe it. Need a purpose for example. Need answers for another.

Max wrote:
Reasoning is based on questioning and testing the hypothesis.
Very true. However, 'Reasoning' and 'Reasons' have different meanings.

Reasons
Noun: A cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event.
Verb: Think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic: "humans do not reason entirely from facts"; "the reasoning behind the review".
Reasoning
Verb: Think, understand, and form judgments by a process of logic: "humans do not reason entirely from facts"; "the reasoning behind the review".
Verb: Find an answer to a problem by considering various possible solutions.


......I just saw a flaw.....DOH! Stupid brain!

Tread name change From:- Do we judge and criticise Beliefs, or Reasoning?
To:- Do we judge and criticise Beliefs, or Reasons?

hahaha stupid obvious mistake, least I saved face in the post. Should have picked up on it Buzi-Blu! lol. Thanks for making me see the clearer picture Max.

So...... feelin bit stationary now! (fingers druming together)

cya.

Coomba98