my little effigy collection

[deep thought]

came across these a couple years ago. have not had them tested. was thinking about bringing them to the university and have them give em a once over. either way im happy to have gotten them. i have my own personal views on what they represent, and i thought i would throw them up to see what you guys think.
all were bought off an old man of mexican decent who claimed he gathered them with his father in the central part of mexico during the 1960's. the guy i got them from had two different collections. all these were from the same collection and these were only the ones that interested me. though there is still this mythical dragon fragment that i want to get my hands on. they still have dirt stuck to them as i have not made any attempt to clean them.
the first appears to me to be a man with some type of helmet or enclosure around his head. tongue slightly poking out. at the top it goes up a little bit but its hard to to tell where it goes from there as they are only fragments. also if you look on each side there appears to be small circular indentations. could they possibly be a set of eye? as in the flying turtles of Guatemala? it could also just be part of the design of the helmet. if you look at how the opening of the helmet where the face is, its slightly curved in a fashion of a turtle opening its mouth. as opposed to the circular fashion of the effigy #2, which to me looks more like a space suit type helmet. again they are only fragments and im looking at them with my type of filter.this one also appears to have been cut with some type of tool or wheel, perhaps. you will see the difference as the two others i have appear to be hand made and baked, but again i dont know have not had them looked at.

ok i have tried to throw my pics up several times. it keeps giving me the same excuse. "Could no upload attachment to ./files/42181_blahblahblah" anyone know what the problem might be? thanks in advance.

[Ace Rimmer]

ok i have tried to throw my pics up several times. it keeps giving me the same excuse. "Could no upload attachment to ./files/42181_blahblahblah" anyone know what the problem might be? thanks in advance.

Hi, you need to put your photos in photobucket and upload from that site.

[deep thought]

my 2nd little guy is apparently hand made. this guy appears to be wearing some type of full body suit. im just gonna come out and say it, it looks to be wearing a space suit. its body is completely covered. hands not apparent. again this one is broken so it might be hard to see it with me. but look at the "halo" around not just its head or face but goes down part way by the back of his head. now are its eyes bugged out or is it wearing some goggles? and a facemask? what is that thing on his chest? and it appears to be wearing some type of back pack. not to mention that the top of the halo where a bubble would be, if it were a space suit, had been dyed black. why? i think because like modern space suits it would need some type of reflective layer to block out harmful rays that could damage the eyes. another strange aspect to this piece is that it is also hollow. there is a tiny hole in the front about where the bellybutton would be. and in the back in what i would say would be the buttocks area is a much larger hole. is this where they got in and out of it?

Hi, you need to put your photos in photobucket and upload from that site.

many thanks

[deep thought]

http://s1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh564/deep_thot/
um how do i upload? it just gave me the links? i am not trying to upload them to facebook or anything

[Ace Rimmer]

http://s1252.photobucket.com/albums/hh564/deep_thot/
um how do i upload? it just gave me the links? i am not trying to upload them to facebook or anything

You get the image address of the photo and it has to have the image tags on each end

If you quote my post here, then you can see what I have done to get this picture on here.

[deep thought]

effigy 1


thoughts, concerns, observations all welcome

effigy 2

[deep thought]

effigy 3 my personal favorite

[deep thought]

heres the info from the guy i bought them from

-This collection we got from an older gentleman of Mexican descent, who brought it with him, along with many more items when he emigrated to Texas during the 1960's. He says they are mostly from the central parts of Mexico, and the area around his home town - Puebla, Veracruz, Hidalgo. We will try to provide as much research and provenance as we can for each piece. They all date to periods before the Aztec Empire in Mesoamerica

heres a link to check out the pieces with the rest of the collection i separated them from. though these seemed much more unique than the others to me. i probably wouldnt have bought them if i had never seen AA.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Central-Mexico- ... 35b8cbb5ae

[Moon]

Thank you for sharing those images with us. They do look interesting and I hope you do get them to a university for someone to look at.

The dirt can also be tested to show where they really did come from. The person selling them could of put them in his own backyard, and a geologist would know where the soil came from.

[deep thought]

many thanks. i didnt think about having the soil tested. i am still waiting to hear back from a couple places around here. i dont think i want to send them off anywhere. im to afraid they wouldnt come back. now to find a geologist.

[yerock III stoneman]

Wow, deepthought. Your effigy1 really looks like a head with a helmet or enclosure. It reminds me the head of one of Mercury's favorite out of place artifacts.
It also reminds me of the Meso-American symbol for the Sun as king (mans head) emerging (or aligning) with the serpents head (center of milky way galaxy). That's THE #1 symbol representing December 21, 2012! ... It's written something like 13.0.0.0 in Mayan numbers. Ancient symbols often had multiple meanings, and I always wondered if they were combining the idea of the end/beginning of their calendar with the return of an alien race.
What a find if it's an original artifact!
... Peace.

[deep thought]

superb observation. i went back and checked how those flying turtles looked again and there were some subtle differences in how it appeared. i think the eyes would have been set farther back if it were the turtle. not right next to the mouth like how it would possibly be with the snake. also the mouth looks a bit different, even though theres a couple chips there. and thats an awesome story to go with it. im going to do some more digging around. many thanks again

[yerock III stoneman]

Compare the head in the helmet-like enclosure of yours to the solar king emerging from a snakes mouth - diagram 38, page 96, Maya Cosmogenesis 2012 by John Major Jenkins, introduction by Terrance Mckenna. (if you don't have access to the book, pm an email address and i'll send you the image, our someone can post it here).
If he has a tongue sticking out, compare the head to the center of the Aztec Sun Stone, aka Calendar Stone. That face represents our age, the 5th Age. He's the 17th day sign, Ollin, meaning movement or earth movement (earthquake). It's how the present age is supposed to end.
... Peace.

[deep thought]

wow i realized today i may have been coming at this the wrong way totally. i am not looking to sell these. i am not looking to hoard them. if anybody here is a part of anything that is legally recognized as an organization that preserves historical culture and artifacts of south american decent i advise you to contact me. i am looking to donate them so they could be studied further and to again preserve and teach about past cultures and civilizations.
i knew that when i bought these that my odds of these being genuine was 50/50. now not only could they be precolombian fakes but this could have been a reproduction that was done to preserve an actual piece of history. you see when the spanish came they demanded effigies and and other cultural artifacts, so that they could burn and destroy them to get the natives to convert more easily. so in an effort to keep the real ones they made just as many fakes to fool the spanish.
now not only could this be a fake of both those periods but for a while making fake statues and such in mexico and south america was common practice to entice the tourist. they would dig them up right in front of you.

when i purchased these i had a bit of an ebay buying addiction. i am over it and i think im ready to move on, lol. but seriously if you have credentials and are seriously interested send me a pm.

[deep thought]

many thanks to rocky stoneman for sending me some awesome pics. i think this one most resembles the effigy 1 in terms of appearance. but again there are a couple subtle differences.



anyone care to point them out?

again even if someone can put me in touch with some one reliable who would be wiling to test and preserve these hit me up. because honesty they probably will end up sitting in my cabinet next to my big daddy action figure and cat in the hat lunch box and various other curios.

by the way this picture came from a book called Atlantis in America by Ivar Zapp and George Erikson page 88 courtesy of rocky

[yerock III stoneman]

Hey deep thought, nice avatar.
The ethnicity of the heads looks different. Looks like the possibility of a common symbolism, though. I've spent a lot of time trying to match images on artifacts. Then matching underlying concepts, that's where the hard work begins.
Good luck. - Rocky

[deep thought]

lol thanks. i think theres a little homer in all of us.

but yes again a great observation. i didnt even notice they appear to be two different ethnic backgrounds. i was basically looking at everything else. different helmet type or the different style of the "helmet" around the face. mine has those little indentations on each side. and i guess im not completely sure if the one from the book has its tongue out or if thats his bottom lip.

[deep thought]

here are some more pictures of a face emerging from a serpents mouth. found these searching around online. this one is from The Palace and Temple of Columns, Labná, Yucatan




this one is from Ballcourt marker at Mixco Viejo



Comitan de las Flores, Chiapas + mayan urn of a person riding a snake that has another face coming out of its mouth.


Guatemala burial urn. Jaguar lid and face emerging from snake mouth



this place also has a theory about how snakes represent wormholes.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_a ... enry01.htm

[siren13]

the kid in me is quite fascinated! thanks so much for sharing these